TRACT Optics

Instinct Shooting with Dan Horner of Sig and GBRS.

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  • Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    41,268
    Glen Burnie
    This whole video explains pretty much everything I have been saying for a long time. Instinct/point shooting is a thing, and trigger finger means pretty much nothing compared to grip importance.
    Few weeks ago DJ and Cole went up to Sig and got a little knowledge transfer.

    People need to free themselves from worrying about small, dime sized groups when it comes to self defense shoots. It's ok to have 6-8 inch or so center mass group shots.
    Instead, concentrate more on grip and not so much trigger finger. Trigger finger isn't as important as you think. This is best explained at the 7 minute mark.

    This video is a must see.

     
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    teratos229

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    52,809
    Bel Air
    I had the distinct pleasure (and lingering urethritis) of getting out with Blaster to shoot. Point shooting was surprisingly intuitive. He left me awestruck.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Active Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    27,589
    Yes , Grip IS important .

    But ..

    To learn , fire 1K rounds per day , until you get it .

    To maintain , you have to fire ( variously given as 10K and 40K ) rounds per year . Otherwise , use sights and trigger control to hit target .

    If your job involves you shooting Every Day on the range ( implied with employer supplied free ammo ) .
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    41,268
    Glen Burnie
    Yes , Grip IS important .

    But ..

    To learn , fire 1K rounds per day , until you get it .

    To maintain , you have to fire ( variously given as 10K and 40K ) rounds per year . Otherwise , use sights and trigger control to hit target .

    If your job involves you shooting Every Day on the range ( implied with employer supplied free ammo ) .
    Amazing. This is exactly what Dan said in the video. That's some Kreskin type stuff right there.

    Well, except the 1,000 rounds a day which is impossible unless you are on Team 6 or a D boy.

    I fired close to 1,300 a day for a couple weeks. It's almost physically impossible to keep that pace up, loading your own mags.

    Funny you mentioned this, because I was just talking about that with DJ and Cole last week about shooting these amounts.
     

    Doco Overboard

    Active Member
    Kid told me his teacher hit him with a sim round like that,
    From behind his back out of the waistband after he had him cuffed and on the ground.
    Anyway, I cant shoot a pistol worth a dam but thats how I attempt to shoot with an automatic pistol.

    You would be surprised how many hits you can make if you try it.
    And on small targets too, like those metal plate targets that go down to about the size of a peanut can and what not.
    Coke cans on the ground a few feet out in the sand and all that sort of thing.
    Yeah I miss a lot of them too but FILE it.
    I only watched a few minutes of the vid but hell yeah it works.
    I tried aiming precisely and everything else at hose metal targets but said there it is just shoot the dam things /make it happen.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Active Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    27,589
    Thinking back . I should have kept a running count . Things aren't done that way anymore , but when particular crusty old school guy was de Facto Head Range guy ( his title was then Armorer , but long story of reorganization and shuffling , but any way , the titled instructors deferred as if his title were still Head Instructor )


    But anyway , the standing instruction was " each time we step to the line , have at least 200 rounds " . Probably was ~ 500 rd a day .
     

    Phoenix_1295

    Creature of Life and Fire
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 6, 2010
    922
    MD
    I’m guessing folks who are unfamiliar with point shooting must have been using aimed fire when they shot their qualification for their permit. That would explain pictures of qualification targets with the X shot out.
     

    Huckleberry

    Making Libs Cry Since '80
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 19, 2007
    20,976
    Severn
    Wow! They're really on to something. Wonder where they got the idea?

    Plus maybe studying Smith, Cooper, Fairbairn, Sykes and Cirillo

    Guys have to stop acting like their re-inventing the wheel.
     

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    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    41,268
    Glen Burnie
    Wow! They're really on to something. Wonder where they got the idea?

    Plus maybe studying Smith, Cooper, Fairbairn, Sykes and Cirillo

    Guys have to stop acting like their re-inventing the wheel.
    Well, so much for you watching the video. It goes into more than just some of your old heroes used to do. There are mechanics and explanations of other stuff there.
    What do you bring to the experienced training table?

    FYI, there's a difference between instinct and point shooting.
     

    normbal

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    May 2, 2011
    837
    socialist occupied maryland
    Wow! They're really on to something. Wonder where they got the idea?

    Plus maybe studying Smith, Cooper, Fairbairn, Sykes and Cirillo

    Guys have to stop acting like their re-inventing the wheel.

    I was learning “point shooting“ almost 50 years ago with cap and ball revolvers, 25 years ago with NSA spooks at Ft. Meade, then as recently as about ten years ago with a friend who had similar training formally.

    first shot outta the holster improves odds.

    this is new now?
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    41,268
    Glen Burnie
    I was learning “point shooting“ almost 50 years ago with cap and ball revolvers, 25 years ago with NSA spooks at Ft. Meade, then as recently as about ten years ago with a friend who had similar training formally.

    first shot outta the holster improves odds.

    this is new now?
    We all should get together and you could share some of your extensive knowledge with the forum.

    You and Huck could bring some old OSS, The Rifleman, and Charles Bronson movies we could watch.

    Tell us about your NSA experience.
    I'm sure it's very interesting.
     

    normbal

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    May 2, 2011
    837
    socialist occupied maryland
    We all should get together and you could share some of your extensive knowledge with the forum.

    You and Huck could bring some old OSS, The Rifleman, and Charles Bronson movies we could watch.

    Tell us about your NSA experience.
    I'm sure it's very interesting.
    I’ll be sure and bring some video of me and your mom, too.
     

    usa259

    Member
    Mar 11, 2015
    759
    Thanks. Truely I was beating my self up for not shooting tighter groups today with the 365X, they ALL were good enough.
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    41,268
    Glen Burnie
    I did watch the video but it was nothing new or ground breaking.

    Sorry that I have had training conducted by some of your "33", USAMU, USMC HRP and also met and studied with some of the instructors that I mentioned.

    Even learned the differences and similarities between Point and Instinctive/Reflexive techniques along the way

    But now, I'm just some old, has been and no one of consequence to somebody the likes of you.

    You are the definitive Tier 1 Holster Sniffer and MDS Dick Measuring Champion Emeritus.
    You literally provide nothing of training value. But those were some cool pictures of 3 old books.

    Which "33"? I literally know them all.
    Where you'd go, The FAA Technical center? Artesia?

    Train us up on all that experience what, 30 years ago?
     
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