I'm in favor of mandatory training to own a gun

[inkd]

Is that a blade in his left hand?

If you are on blood pressure meds and want to test their effectiveness, just google some of his videos.

 

[Name Taken]

Why was this guy an IP with nothing about his business listed?

 

[StantonCree]

Why was this guy an IP with nothing about his business listed?

It's listed under his profile

 

[photoracer]

ALL constructive input is appreciated. I've been a member here since 2009, been banned once, and have seemingly made some keyboard enemies. took some time off from posting and lurked for quite sometime. There seems to be a commonality in the fraternity et.el. and that really does affect the viewing audience, new to the lifestyle of gun ownership. I think it was DC~W who said "...these threads are nothing to take seriously, just a place to vent..."--or something like that and i agreed. YET, there are some serious statements on these threads that need to be addressed.

First off, would everyone here agree that in order to exercise our 1st amendment free speech rights, we have had MANDATORY training? yes or no? for those who say NO, if you didn't have the training to read and write, you couldn't read this. EDUCATION is mandatory, be it homeschool or public or private, it is mandatory.

next comes the 15th amendment to the constitution, whereby The Voting Rights Act of 1965, signed into law by President Lyndon B. Johnson, aimed to overcome legal barriers at the state and local levels that prevented African Americans from exercising their right to vote as guaranteed under the 15th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. <~~here, there is no mandatory training, yet societally speaking, those who vote have more impact on us as a whole, than any other populace in America. shouldn't some sort of mandatory training in civics/economics and American History be taught to REGISTERED voters? yes/no? in my opinion, if you answer NO, we are doomed as a republic/democracy. cultural influences will change us in unpredicted directions, look at Europe.

It is to my understanding that those who seek citizenship in the USA are required to attend a mandatory training class in American culture and history, plus take the pledge to the country, but this requirement is being phased out as of this writing.

now comes the topic of disapproval from many, mandatory training for gun ownership. before we go down that road, consider the words in the second amendment, "...a well regulated militia..." what does that mean? Word Origin and History for regulate Expand v. early 15c., "adjust by rule, control," from Late Latin regulatus, past participle of regulare "to control by rule, direct," from Latin regula "rule" (see regular ). Meaning "to govern by restriction" is from 1620s. Related: Regulated ; regulating.

According to our 2nd amendment of the constitution of the United States of America "an amendment to the U.S. Constitution, ratified in 1791 as part of the Bill of Rights, guaranteeing the right to keep and bear arms as necessary to maintain a state militia." The state militia at the time was the citizenry. Citizens who knew how to use guns because of their state regulation, an amendment to the U.S. Constitution, ratified in 1791 as part of the Bill of Rights, guaranteeing the right to keep and bear arms as necessary to maintain a state militia.

think about that for a rational moment.

Massad Ayoob and I had this conversation last august and when i told him LEO'S had to qualify on their firearms once per year, mandatorily! he simply said, "good point." and we moved on. matter of fact, this exchange come from : (ahem) I would like to preface this reply by saying I haven’t read all the responses, but after sending this post for review, will begin my evening/late nite reading and absorb the opinions set fourth.

Ma’s, you and I had this brief discussion in Harrisburg, PA. In fact, I find it ironic you told me this story in an abbreviated fashion “… I spoke as an expert witness for a female senior citizen who was charged with criminal homicide after killing her abusive common law husband in self-defense when he tried to murder her for the second time in a matter of a few days. Attorney Mark Seiden won her acquittal, and I was proud to have been a part of that. The lady in question lived in a trailer and could not have afforded training. She couldn’t even afford her own gun. After the first murder attempt, she had borrowed a cheap .22 from her son. The three shots she fired in the self-defense incident – all center mass hits – were the second, third, and fourth shots she had ever discharged from a firearm in her life.

If she’d had to pay for a firearms safety course she couldn’t afford, she would have been helplessly murdered.”

My immediate response was that we in the shooting community need to look out for others who have a shared interest. (I am a Maryland state license/NRA certified/MAG certified/IDPA certified instructor) I said I would give her the instruction under my HARDSHIP DISCOUNT, meaning there would be no fee, so long as the student did the homework AND followed up with the free hour of refresher. I have donated countless hours to hardship cases A Vietnam Vet so riddled with Agent Orange, the health costs are to treat a 400% disabled medals of honor recipient, who has a really nice collection. In Maryland there is a mandatory 4 hour safety course requirement before you can even lawfully buy/transfer/possess a regulated firearm. His wife got a six hour course of instruction for the price of a box of CCI .22LR, copper plated, 50 rds. When it’s “time”, she will be able to retain his collection after the funeral.

So back to Harrisburg conversation, I mentioned all CCW holders should have to shoot one IDPA classifier, if they have the skills and physical ability. You gave me the look like “seriously?” and then as we were going back into the building, I said, my friends who wear a badge have to do the MANDATORY qualification at least once per year, civilians should be held to the same standard. (I don’t know that you heard me as you had entered the building and I was still in the threshold.)

Mas, your level of instruction is much different than where I start with my students. YOUR students are for the most part experienced and TRAINED. Mine? I could tell you horror stories.

Exp: Mrs. Jones comes into my office with a big beach bag. Ms. Jones is 72 years young. She wants to learn how to use her inherited .38SPL Service revolver. Her husband was a city cop. She is on fixed income (hardship discount), and comes into my class with a fully cocked .38 SPL, housing .38 SPL +P, ball ammo, in the bottom of this beach bag, with all her “essentials”, key ring, writing pens, check book, chapstick, change and a couple rolls of dimes. I AM GRATEFUL FOR MANDATORY training as I fixt this problem. Without the mandatory training to acquire the lawful possession of this gun in Maryland, this situation was just an accident waiting to happen.

I could bore you with more examples, but I hope what I have provided is adequate. If not, I can send links to news stories where the three year old toddler shot her mother in the stomach in a Walmart, mom WAS a lawful in CCW and countless other tragedies.

Not only that, we have to consider societal progression vs firearm advancements. Back in the “day” it was shameful for towns folk to NOT show up at public events that promoted safety and accurate shooting. Ball and cap days. Today, shame is a thing of the past, mainstream. Firearm advancements have to be considered juxtaposed to common knowledge.

exp: clerk at a gun store is new and has fetishes about his new love with GLOCK. Everything is GLOCK to him. A customer walks in with no training, never have shot a gun and walks out with a .40CAL, POLY FRAMED semi auto, two 16 round standard capacity magazines. It didn’t occur to her she couldn’t load the magazines and when she did get some in, they were backwards. As well, remembering the slide stop, and how the whole machine was designed for easy and simple function left her at a loss. (sigh) Mandatory training is my vote, hands down. Many instructors I know might donate time, some may not, but ultimately it is up to the gun owner to seek out the training and ASK if the instructor has a HARDSHIP clause. Then again, those who have shame may not seek the instruction because they think it a futile and embarrassing endeavor. And thats the shame.

I’m sure more to come… Thanks.

Stay safe.

Monocacy Pistol Club requires every member to shoot at least one match per year and have been doing that as far back as I can remember. Main reason is to see whether the person has acceptable safety and shooting skills (sometimes they don't). I personally think that an IDPA match would be a good qualifier in a state like here in WV that has universal carry. But sadly it will never happen.

 

[protegeV]

It's listed under his profile

not seeing it...

 

[inkd]

not seeing it...

I don't believe he is an IP any more. He was at one time.

Post #93

 

[StantonCree]

I don't believe he is an IP any more. He was at one time.

Post #93

He's not but his business is listed.....P5 found what he was curious about

 

[outrider58]

I don't think he's in the conga/bongo business any more...

 

[inkd]

He's not but his business is listed.....P5 found what he was curious about

Hmmm, I guess I didn't look close enough on his profile. Ooooops.

 

[Alea Jacta Est]

Training good.

Preparation good.

Frequency good.

Readiness good.

Requirements bad.

Overreach bad.

Less government good.

More government bad.

Rights good.

Tyranny bad.

Dialog good.

Monologue bad.

Thread toast.

 

[Schipperke]

so you are okay with this? "This was a two-day course (Sat. & Sun.). On Saturday, the place was very busy. There was a wait for people to shoot. A couple of schmucks, sitting in the waiting area chairs, had their ARs out and one repeatedly swept the elevator area (the only way to go upstairs to the classroom). " just asking.

Looks like a Grey Hound station plus sweeping AR's in there quite actually.

Much of what I saw there and at other ranges, putting others in danger I'd suspect is from zero instruction. Whether you are for or against "mandatory training" to be in public with a firearm, the constant harping that enumerated rights can't be or are not regulated just isn't a fact. Many states require mandatory training for CCW. I'm not aware of a case that has stricken mandatory training as an infringement. The issue of how much training is what bothers me. If UT can do it in half a day, it's remarkable DC & MD believe it takes two full days.

 

[Mr. Ed]

Looks like a Grey Hound station plus sweeping AR's in there quite actually.

Much of what I saw there and at other ranges, putting others in danger I'd suspect is from zero instruction. Whether you are for or against "mandatory training" to be in public with a firearm, the constant harping that enumerated rights can't be or are not regulated just isn't a fact. Many states require mandatory training for CCW. I'm not aware of a case that has stricken mandatory training as an infringement. The issue of how much training is what bothers me. If UT can do it in half a day, it's remarkable DC & MD believe it takes two full days.

Dammit, that's funny right there. And very true. Not as many perverts cruising the bathrooms, and it smells a little better.

 

[rbird7282]

I actually wish that Maryland structures its HQL course to include more hands on handgun handling, like how to safety check, field strip and clean guns, how to correct common malfunctions, etc. I would have liked more of that knowledge as a beginner.

Most of that is covered in the owner's manual.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[woodstock]

Monocacy Pistol Club requires every member to shoot at least one match per year and have been doing that as far back as I can remember. Main reason is to see whether the person has acceptable safety and shooting skills (sometimes they don't). I personally think that an IDPA match would be a good qualifier in a state like here in WV that has universal carry. But sadly it will never happen.

there's hope. if enough shooting clubs require training, problem solved. dayum, this isn't even in the water cooler and it got big quick. thanks all.

 

[StantonCree]

there's hope. if enough shooting clubs require training, problem solved. dayum, this isn't even in the water cooler and it got big quick. thanks all.

Of course it got big. You are advocating an unpopular opinion of mandatory training. Everyone knows you were an IP and a trainer. On top of that your comparisons are off.

This thread has total potential to hit 25-30 pages.

As a former MSI executive member (as you state) it would seem one would be a little less FOR mandatory requirements on a right.

Look I'm not knocking your opinion, while I fully disagree, it's your opinion and this is MURICA, you're entitled to it. That being said you have to flip the thought coin and understand it's terribly unpopular

 

[Alea Jacta Est]

Disingenuous; all things considered.

Thread length artificially and intentionally inflated.

IMO of course.

 

[outrider58]

Of course it got big. You are advocating an unpopular opinion of mandatory training. Everyone knows you were an IP and a trainer. On top of that your comparisons are off.

This thread has total potential to hit 25-30 pages.

As a former MSI executive member (as you state) it would seem one would be a little less FOR mandatory requirements on a right.

Look I'm not knocking your opinion, while I fully disagree, it's your opinion and this is MURICA, you're entitled to it. That being said you have to flip the thought coin and understand it's terribly unpopular

And to top it off, training doesn't, in and of itself, make a safe shooter. I think this is the point most here have tried to beat home. Alas, it has fallen on deaf ears. Sad

 

[welder516]

Wow

 

[Alea Jacta Est]

Wow

Just like you were speechless. Only wordier.

 

[Schipperke]

About 45 years ago and before, firearms training was mandatory for many men, whether they wanted a gun or not.