Humor Me. Blackpowder Shotshells...

[SOMDSHOOT]

I suffered the proverbial "one thing leads to another" on YouTube this morning. I have to know if anyone here has ever reloaded shotshells with muzzleloader powder like Pyrodex RS or Triple 7 for example. This sounds interesting, though it is hardly rocket science, but, I had that "Play a trick on my buddy" thought as well. Sort of like the exploding Golf Ball prank. I'm just curious if anyone has actually taken the time to play with load data, for say, a 12 gauge shotshell.

 

[Karl/PA]

Should be lots of data available. A good many BP people are shooting damascus barrels with BP. Not sure you'll find much on Pyrodex loads tho. Just do a Google.

 

[Deep Creek Rock]

A few issues back of Handloader mag had a whole write up on blackpowder shotgun reloading. Didnt read that article as it does not appeal to me (Im not a big shotgunnner in general, although I own a few). But there are plenty of people who do it.

I dont think I would run that stuff (blackpowder) in a gun designed for smokeless though.

 

[GNLaFrance]

I dont think I would run that stuff (blackpowder) in a gun designed for smokeless though.

I don't know why you shouldn't. The essential difference between a black powder gun and a nitro (smokeless) powder gun is that the nitro gun is designed to handle higher pressures. You simply can't begin to approach a nitro gun's limits with black powder, there isn't enough room in the case.

Many of the cartridges we use today were designed when black powder was all there was. In fact, modern nitro powders work best in huge cases like the .45 Colt when they're made to take up as much volume as possible. Back in the day, they just filled the case with BP so the bullet compressed the charge.

NCOWS (see my sig block) normally shoots BP in everything, and the approved firearms list is even larger than SASS's. I've seen single shot, bolt action, and lever action rifles, derringers, pocket pistols, revolvers, and even some Model O autos burning BP. Loved the looks on people's faces when a 1911 started vomiting 12 inch flames and huge clouds of smoke

 

[Deep Creek Rock]

I don't know why you shouldn't. The essential difference between a black powder gun and a nitro (smokeless) powder gun is that the nitro gun is designed to handle higher pressures. You simply can't begin to approach a nitro gun's limits with black powder, there isn't enough room in the case.

Many of the cartridges we use today were designed when black powder was all there was. In fact, modern nitro powders work best in huge cases like the .45 Colt when they're made to take up as much volume as possible. Back in the day, they just filled the case with BP so the bullet compressed the charge.

NCOWS (see my sig block) normally shoots BP in everything, and the approved firearms list is even larger than SASS's. I've seen single shot, bolt action, and lever action rifles, derringers, pocket pistols, revolvers, and even some Model O autos burning BP. Loved the looks on people's faces when a 1911 started vomiting 12 inch flames and huge clouds of smoke

Im not talking pressures - Im talking the corrosiveness of pyrodex and black powder etc. I would be pissed if someone slipped me one in my guns.

 

[GNLaFrance]

Im not talking pressures - Im talking the corrosiveness of pyrodex and black powder etc. I would be pissed if someone slipped me one in my guns.

Ah, yes - black powder instantly begins corroding any steel it contacts.

No, it doesn't. Properly maintained and loaded BP guns have been found years, even decades, after being loaded and set down, with no sign of rust anywhere. They can - and some of them have - been fired as they were found.

What does the damage is the residue of black powder left in the bore and chamber after firing, combining with humidity. Even that doesn't guarantee rust - if the steel is properly "seasoned" with something like Bore Butter or Ed's Red, it can often be left for some time before cleaning.

Ambient humidity plays a very big role in this, of course. Fire a muzzle-loader in Death Valley for example, set it down in the shadow of a big rock, take a walk, come back in 20 years, and there's a decent chance you'll find it still in good enough condition to wipe the dust off, load it, and fire it again.

Even so, it's still a really good idea to hit the bore and operating parts with soapy water or a BP solvent as soon as possible after firing, then cover it with a thin coat of grease or oil. That's just common sense.

 

[SOMDSHOOT]

Im not talking pressures - Im talking the corrosiveness of pyrodex and black powder etc. I would be pissed if someone slipped me one in my guns.

I understand your point about the corrosives, but, we're smart enough to run a brush through it. It's not going to hurt anything.

 

[SOMDSHOOT]

I'll have to do some digging and see if I can come up with some basic load data. I have a can of Pyrodex RS that's got 1986 on the cap. Might be a fun way to use it up. The powder is fine, but, there's not much of it left.

 

[Deep Creek Rock]

Ah, yes - black powder instantly begins corroding any steel it contacts.

No, it doesn't. Properly maintained and loaded BP guns have been found years, even decades, after being loaded and set down, with no sign of rust anywhere. They can - and some of them have - been fired as they were found.

What does the damage is the residue of black powder left in the bore and chamber after firing, combining with humidity. Even that doesn't guarantee rust - if the steel is properly "seasoned" with something like Bore Butter or Ed's Red, it can often be left for some time before cleaning.

Ambient humidity plays a very big role in this, of course. Fire a muzzle-loader in Death Valley for example, set it down in the shadow of a big rock, take a walk, come back in 20 years, and there's a decent chance you'll find it still in good enough condition to wipe the dust off, load it, and fire it again.

Even so, it's still a really good idea to hit the bore and operating parts with soapy water or a BP solvent as soon as possible after firing, then cover it with a thin coat of grease or oil. That's just common sense.

As an FYI - Im not a stranger to blackpowder or muzzeloaders. But I do not want that stuff in any of my gas semi auto shotguns, or any gun not designed for it. Its a pain in the ass to clean out, and add the petro based preservatives and lubes - which are NOT supposed to be used with black powder - Id rather not deal with that. There is a reason smokeless powder was developed, and I'll stick to it, unless Im firing a muzzleloader, or an older black powder cartridge gun, that was intended to fire it.

Not trying to start a pissing match, just my thoughts.

 

[GNLaFrance]

As an FYI - Im not a stranger to blackpowder or muzzeloaders. But I do not want that stuff in any of my gas semi auto shotguns, or any gun not designed for it. Its a pain in the ass to clean out, and add the petro based preservatives and lubes - which are NOT supposed to be used with black powder - Id rather not deal with that. There is a reason smokeless powder was developed, and I'll stick to it, unless Im firing a muzzleloader, or an older black powder cartridge gun, that was intended to fire it.

Not trying to start a pissing match, just my thoughts.

A gas-operated semi - yes, you'd give reason to question your sanity if you even considered loading it with black powder. I blame either my lack of imagination or my common sense - take your pick - for not even thinking about that. Ditto for petroleum lubes. I'm so used to guns that were designed before anyone ever thought of nitro powders that I just didn't take that into account.

Dang all these new-fangled guns and greases, anyway - let's get back to turn-of-the-20th-century technology!

 

[Goose Guy]

Not sure how well that would go over with a semi, cleaning wise. Pumps may be a little more forgiving, though.

I use 95 gr of 2F Goex in my black powder SxS and it has quite a bit of power to it.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Equal volume BP and lead shot. Adjust the felt and card wads to give proper crimp height.

 

[SOMDSHOOT]

Well I have come up with some loads. I know more about muzzleloaders and blackpowder than I do shotguns anyway, so, with that said, I'll take my chances in my old Mossberg 500. I have no issues in running a few Pyrodex rounds through the barrel. It makes more a of mess in an actual front stuffer anyway.

The shotshell hull keeps ll the powder in a forward direction. The bass and primer does not allow "blow-back" like the open nipple of a breech plug does. Swabbing the barrel of a shotgun beats the hell out of breaking down a muzzleloader and cleaning it entirely, so with that said, I'm walking away from the debate over the powder getting into the action of a pump or a semi auto since it doesn't apply to the end result.

However, I guess the details of loading some 12 gauge shotshells with Pyrodex got lost in the debate of who owns what gun. I'm not here to debate the type of gun, so, I'm moving on and going to make some smoke.

This has got to be some serious added fun for Crow hunting...

 

[SOMDSHOOT]

Equal volume BP and lead shot. Adjust the felt and card wads to give proper crimp height.

That is if you're using true Blackpowder. Otherwise the math is 75% per 100 of BP. I'm using Sub not actual BP.

 

[Biggfoot44]

That's 75% of Weight. Pyrodex , and just about every substitute except 777 is intended for Volume for Volume substitution. As for ignition of various substitutes , that's why it's called experementation.

 

[SOMDSHOOT]

I went out and did some shooting yesterday morning with a buddy of mine and I finally got to test some of my 12 gauge shotshells loaded with Pyrodex RS Muzzleloader powder. Now that is a friggin' hoot of a good time.

I loaded some 2-3/4" 12 Ga. with #7 shot in some old Winchester AA hulls and some Federal HB slug hulls and charged them with 30 grains of Pyrodex to test.

I used the Mossberg 500 with an extra full Turkey choke and the patterns were excellent at about 40 yards. I'm going to up the powder to 40 grains, call it a day, and go do some Crow hunting with them.

The powder is more for entertainment, but, the pattern of the shot was excellent and worthy of hunting with. If you have never reloaded a shotshell with a Muzzleloader powder you have just got to try it once.

 

[jimbobborg]

Shotshells, no. .45 Colt rounds, yes. Recoil is different using Pyrodex versus Unique or other smokeless powders.

 

[SOMDSHOOT]

Shotshells, no. .45 Colt rounds, yes. Recoil is different using Pyrodex versus Unique or other smokeless powders.

Yeah my buddy shot 3 of the 12 gauge shells and asked for more. He said, "Man you could shoot those all day". The recoil on the Pyrodex reloads was simply non-existent, but, the pattern and the velocity was still there similar to any standard Clays / Dove factory 12 Ga. shotshell.

I liked the way the 30 and 35 grain charges performed, but, I am confident I would be much more happy with 40 to 45 grains. anything over 45 grains I just feel is going to be too much for any practical end result.

 

[shaddydan]

I have this old H & R single shot I may have to try some of these. Sounds like fun!

 

[kalister1]

30 years ago I went to a duck and goose calling seminar in Middle River. It was in a high school gym.
They showed a movie of an OLD guy that would shoot birds with a Side By Side. After he fired, he would take a hammer and punch and remove the primer, Pound in a new one and then pour in SOME black, no measure just pour in a little. Then he would stuff some dry grass in and pour in SOME shot. Stuff some more dry grass in to compact the shot and beat it into the side by side with the palm of his hand. He was killing geese with these shells, in the movie.
Sometimes we make things way too complicated