HPRB December 6, 2016 Meeting Thread

[BeoBill]

I am aghast, in listening to the recording of the meeting, that the LD trooper is in a very OPEN AND FLAGRANT p1ssing contest with the applicant and the Board in the third case. It truly is a ROGUE agency. I also noted that the Gender Card was played and accented. Maybe a subsequent male can try to play the Age Card...

 

[hillbilly grandpa]

Sounds like yet another case of "Making Sh1t UP" to me.

Precisely. That's why it could become an excellent point of attack for challenging this whole house of cards. Force them to articulate, then defend both their rules and their compliance with them. It's a small issue, but it can be one of a series of push-backs that has a cumulative impact. When bureaucracies are forced to defend their rules, and then are pressured to abide by them things can get interesting.

 

[motorcoachdoug]

Is their anyway to report that trooper for his actions and unprofessional conduct as well? After all that trooper was throwing a before the board and the public.

 

[W2D]

Precisely. That's why it could become an excellent point of attack for challenging this whole house of cards. Force them to articulate, then defend both their rules and their compliance with them. It's a small issue, but it can be one of a series of push-backs that has a cumulative impact. When bureaucracies are forced to defend their rules, and then are pressured to abide by them things can get interesting.

Different organizations. The Capitol Police officer probably could care less what HPRB wants, and MSP isn't going to bend based on some slight by the Capitol Police.

 

[CypherPunk]

Email sent to Neverdon.

Emailing Neverdon is like complaining to Nancy Pelosi about voter fraud and illegal immigration.

Better to email Governor Hogan and Cc: open meetings and civil liberties groups.

Tell them if a precedent is established and defended for corrupt and unlawful open meetings practices, imagine how a despicable republican could exploit the status quo to their own ends?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[W2D]

Emailing Neverdon is like complaining to Nancy Pelosi about voter fraud and illegal immigration.

Better to email Governor Hogan and Cc: open meetings and civil liberties groups.

Tell them if a precedent is established and defended for corrupt and unlawful open meetings practices, imagine how a despicable republican could exploit the status quo to their own ends?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

One step at a time...

 

[swinokur]

As a point of observation, Neverdon was absent last night.

 

[Stoveman]

For those who had their DL scanned last night, go to the Capitol Police website and download their app. There is a complaint form for your use and you can remain anonymous if you so desire.

https://local.nixle.com/alert/5728724/


Sgt. Lewis
Badge #050

 

[swinokur]

I left a stern voicemail with the LT this morning. Of course no one has bothered to return my call.

Part of Hogan's new customer service initiative?

very impressive

 

[Bob A]

The admittance policy is as follows: "During and after business hours or during declared emergency situations, an individual working, visiting, conducting business or otherwise lawfully in, on, or about State property will be required to display identification documents upon request." (h/t W2D)

In other words, identification is always required. As far as I can tell, "during or after business hours" would apply 24/7.

Anyone with two brain cells to rub together can see this is an intimidation tactic, pure and simple. I have never had to show an ID to enter any public meeting, nor a courthouse, nor a police station, nor a voting booth.

 

[tsmith1499]

Do they ask us for ID when going into the buildings in Annapolis? I honestly don't remember I've been often enough.

 

[BeoBill]

In other words, identification is always required. As far as I can tell, "during or after business hours" would apply 24/7.

Anyone with two brain cells to rub together can see this is an intimidation tactic, pure and simple. I have never had to show an ID to enter any public meeting, nor a courthouse, nor a police station, nor a voting booth.

See, there you go raising the bar again...

 

[Biggfoot44]

Yes, at State House and legislative office blds you have to show an ID. SHOW . Nothing recorded or scanned. Frequently I showed a Gov't picture ID from another jurisdiction not for any particular reason other than I was on top of where I carry my ID, instead of digging out DL. No issues.

 

[swinokur]

I found it particularly dumb not to accept an MSP issued HQL that has both my DL number and a photograph on it.

Felony stupid to quote Rep. Issa.

 

[dblas]

Also you know that when members of the LD division went back to work this morning they were not happy with the board at all. I would not be surprised if they did file an appeal about the RN who works at the hospital in Salisbury. Mabe even to file an appeal for the person who had their restrictions removed as well. You know the commander of the LD division will be going over each and every application with a fine tooth comb and i bet calling the ag's office as well for advice on how to handle things also. What is known about the new commander of the LD and where does he stand ????? just wondering.

Nothing would have happened today or tomorrow or this week or next for that matter. It is not official until MSP and the applicant get their letter from the HPRB, at which point MSP has 30 days to appeal.

 

[dblas]

Why do the Capitol police have jurisdiction over that bldg anyway?

Not Capital Police but Department of General Service Police, who's jurisdiction is all Maryland State Government buildings.

 

[dblas]

Maybe dblas can give us some background if he still has MSP contacts?

No clue, since I have only ever met him once at the HPRB meetings, and then o longer have a reason, other than personal ones, to contact him.

 

[dblas]

Do they ask us for ID when going into the buildings in Annapolis? I honestly don't remember I've been often enough.

Yes, they ask for ID when entering any of the buildings in Annapolis.

 

[JPG]

What if someone used a Sharpie over the barcode? Is there a law against that? You could remove the ink later.

 

[Hattie]

Thanks as always for the audio posting, which is extremely valuable.

Police officer's son did well in getting a continuance to submit testimony from his father.

Nurse-applicant did a super job. She laid out numerous specific facts that establish she is in danger, had two independent grounds (hospital work and son's military data breach) and got the hospital to write a letter that included the word "support." That she even had to go before the Board reaffirms how rigid, biased and unreasonable the MSP is.

Community volunteer did a good job too. Again, there is a clear palpable need and no reason to consider the application frivolous.

Chairman needs to rein in MSP. Troopers are there to testify to facts, not argue a case. They are not competent to render legal opinions. Their vague references to "caselaw" could easily be met, and shut down, by a demand for citations to specific decisions that support their assertions. They certainly should not be arguing directly with applicants, or with Board members. That is entirely out of order and the Chairman should put a stop to it.

Most importantly, MSP continues utterly to misconstrue the law, demanding proof of actual, proven, imminent, existing danger, not "apprehended" danger; in any event, what is required is not any proof of danger, but a good (non-frivolous) and substantial (non-trivial) reason. It is still not clear that the Board fully understand this.

Leggum's advice to fully develop the facts was good. More facts strengthen the decision against a possible attack by MSP that the Board acted arbitrarily or capriciously or abused its discretion.

Firearms trainer presented clearly and well the now-familiar discussion why MSP's vague, ambiguous, "trust us" restrictions are unsupportable, and the Board acted correctly in granting protection against criminal prosecution because MSP can't imagine simply issuing permits without unnecessary and unreasonable restrictions in the first place.