Hospital associated deaths

[wjackcooper]

For those who appreciate irony:

Studies (using 2013 empirical data and scientific methodology) show hospitals to be “associated with” a far greater number of “preventable deaths” (210,000n plus)* than deaths (33,636)** “associated with” privately possessed guns.**

*http://journals.lww.com/journalpati...idence_based_Estimate_of_Patient_Harms.2.aspx

http://www.hospitalsafetyscore.org/...dleading-causeofdeathinus-improvementstooslow

**http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm

Regards
Jack

 

[traveller]

Politically driven BS data.

 

[5.56blaster]

Never had a friend killed by a firearm but did have my father killed by a doctor that was to busy to listen. Sent him home with a pilll for stomach pain and he slowly bled to death from a gastric ulcer.

 

[Boom Boom]

Same here. Have never personally known anyone killed or injured by a firearm, maybe except a cop I spoke to a few times on the next street over who was shot in the leg by a bad guy and recovered. My niece almost died last year from a burst appendix. Went to ER in extreme abdominal pain and told them she thought her appendix burst. She was diagnosed with indigestion and sent home. She later returned in an ambulance because the pain was so bad she was passing out.

 

[traveller]

Never had a friend killed by a firearm but did have my father killed by a doctor that was to busy to listen. Sent him home with an pill for stomach pain and he slowly bled to death from a gastric ulcer.

Same here. Have never personally known anyone killed or injured by a firearm, maybe except a cop I spoke to a few times on the next street over who was shot in the leg by a bad guy and recovered. My niece almost died last year from a burst appendix. Went to ER in extreme abdominal pain and told them she thought her appendix burst. She was diagnosed with indigestion and sent home. She later returned in an ambulance because the pain was so bad she was passing out.

Neither of which would have been counted in the 'up to 210,000' number.

 

[Boom Boom]

Neither of which would have been counted in the 'up to 210,000' number.

Check out the OP's second link. My niece came very close to being in the 440,000 per year.

Report cited in second link:
http://journals.lww.com/journalpati...idence_based_Estimate_of_Patient_Harms.2.aspx

 

[traveller]

Check out the OP's second link. My niece came very close to being in the 440,000 per year.

Now it's 440,000 Next week it'll be a million.

All generated out of a 30 year old institute of medicine report that was based on a small subset of hospital records.

She still wouldn't have shown up in those 'hospital error' numbers. They deal with 'preventable harm' which they define as any adverse event from a procedure or medication. Whether the person who had one of those 'preventable events' would have died from their underlying disease anyway is of no consequence to these 'researchers'.

This comes from the same school of statistics that gives us the '12 children per minute that die from accidental gun deaths' and '40 thousand people who are victims of gun violence'.

 

[sleepingdino]

Great news for you. If you don't want a hospital related problem, then don't go to the hospital. Don't smoke, don't get fat, and don't get old. While you are at it, get better genes.

The kind of person going into medicine nowadays isn't particularly interested in listening to your blathering. Just cut to the chase. They need to enter the information into the computer so they can stay out of trouble with Medicare and the government.

Soon, the bar will be so low, you will happy to merely be seen by any warm body. Just ask the Canadians or the British. For those who like those systems, bully for you and you should consider moving there.

 

[BeoBill]

Great news for you. If you don't want a hospital related problem, then don't go to the hospital. Don't smoke, don't get fat, and don't get old. While you are at it, get better genes.

The kind of person going into medicine nowadays isn't particularly interested in listening to your blathering. Just cut to the chase. They need to enter the information into the computer so they can stay out of trouble with Medicare and the government.

Soon, the bar will be so low, you will happy to merely be seen by any warm body. Just ask the Canadians or the British. For those who like those systems, bully for you and you should consider moving there.

BLUF: Doctors aren't doctors any more. They're technicians. They enter your symptoms and any readings the nurse didn't enter into a tablet, and the server spits back a diagnosis and prints the necessary scripts. A caveman could do it.

 

[Bob A]

People who get shot are usually relatively random, except for select populations like LEO and drug dealers.

People who die in hospitals are self-selected for serious illness. The likelihood of their having serious complications is thus increased. Meanwhile, hospitals are chronically understaffed at this time, since their management teams are trying to keep the place afloat in the aftermath of the Obamacare debacle. This leads to increase in errors, in places where dangerous drugs and dangerous treatments are the order of the day.

Do not go to a hospital, unless you are in danger of death or serious complications.

 

[Boom Boom]

Now it's 440,000 Next week it'll be a million.

You'll change your smugness when you or your family are the victim. Like when a nurse ignored my niece's insistence that her newborn daughter (one week old) not be vaccinated, the nurse injected the baby anyway when my niece wasn't looking, and my grand niece went into seizures and cardiac arrest less than one minute later. My grand niece survived, thank God, after two months of touch and go in neonatal ICU, no thanks to an all-knowing, self-righteous bitch of a nurse.

 

[teratos]

BLUF: Doctors aren't doctors any more. They're technicians. They enter your symptoms and any readings the nurse didn't enter into a tablet, and the server spits back a diagnosis and prints the necessary scripts. A caveman could do it.

BS. Doesn't happen that way at all. The electronic medical records do not diagnose or suggest anything.

 

[Schipperke]

BS. Doesn't happen that way at all. The electronic medical records do not diagnose or suggest anything.

Yep, that is called a CBC

 

[john_bud]

People who get shot are usually relatively random, except for select populations like LEO and drug dealers.

People who die in hospitals are self-selected for serious illness. The likelihood of their having serious complications is thus increased. Meanwhile, hospitals are chronically understaffed at this time, since their management teams are trying to keep the place afloat in the aftermath of the Obamacare debacle. This leads to increase in errors, in places where dangerous drugs and dangerous treatments are the order of the day.

Do not go to a hospital, unless you are in danger of death or serious complications.

I disagree. Most INTENTIONAL shootings are far from random. The vast bulk are related to gangs and drug sale turf. There is a reason cops interview friends and family when a shooting occurs. People shot "randomly" are a tiny fraction.

 

[BeoBill]

BS. Doesn't happen that way at all. The electronic medical records do not diagnose or suggest anything.

BS back at ya. Observe closely the next time you see your doc; try to see the tablet screen. I did. I go to a different doc now.

 

[Bob A]

I disagree. Most INTENTIONAL shootings are far from random. The vast bulk are related to gangs and drug sale turf. There is a reason cops interview friends and family when a shooting occurs. People shot "randomly" are a tiny fraction.

I sort of implied that "select populations" like druggies would not fall into the "random shooting" category. Otherwise, shootings are distributed randomly across the population. Sex and money are everywhere and always a good enough reason for mayhem. Alcohol and, yes, other drugs also contribute their share, but alcohol abuse is also widespread across populations.

 

[traveller]

BS back at ya. Observe closely the next time you see your doc; try to see the tablet screen. I did. I go to a different doc now.

I work on electronic medical records systems for a living. They don't diagnose anything. If you give them a diagnosis, they come back with the billing code, but that's about it. There are some tools to aid clinical decisionmaking, but those are not part of your typical EMR system.

 

[MaxVO2]

BLUF: Doctors aren't doctors any more. They're technicians. They enter your symptoms and any readings the nurse didn't enter into a tablet, and the server spits back a diagnosis and prints the necessary scripts. A caveman could do it.

****I really hope you don't believe this. PA's, Nurses, and others in the field have extensive education, and doctors more so. Like any profession, there are some people better at the job than others, but the level of education and intelligence required to do the job even at the lowest level requires a lot of education. There are doctors in specialty fields that require so much training now that they don't even really begin "working" until they are 30 or older due to the training. A patient comes in with a headache or stomach ache and those symptoms could be any of 100's of different problems that could require anything from simple rest to extensive surgery, chemo or radiotherapy, etc..

There is no diagnosis coming from the info entered into a tablet. Stuff can be flagged from bloodwork, etc... but the doctor has to take a LOT of other things into consideration before making a formal diagnosis, and suggest the best course of action on treatment.

 

[DAMUE]

****I really hope you don't believe this. PA's, Nurses, and others in the field have extensive education, and doctors more so. Like any profession, there are some people better at the job than others, but the level of education and intelligence required to do the job even at the lowest level requires a lot of education. There are doctors in specialty fields that require so much training now that they don't even really begin "working" until they are 30 or older due to the training. A patient comes in with a headache or stomach ache and those symptoms could be any of 100's of different problems that could require anything from simple rest to extensive surgery, chemo or radiotherapy, etc..

There is no diagnosis coming from the info entered into a tablet. Stuff can be flagged from bloodwork, etc... but the doctor has to take a LOT of other things into consideration before making a formal diagnosis, and suggest the best course of action on treatment.

Of course these medical professionals require LOTS of education. However, from my experiences, and those of many family members, most doctors today don't put much time and effort into diagnosing a problem. They are so worried about getting you out of there, and moving onto the next patient, that they end up just writing you a script for an antibiotic, pain meds, or a anti-depressant. They don't care about actually fixing anything. Of course that is not all doctors, but it is enough of them that it seems to be the new normal.

 

[SCDoGo]

****I really hope you don't believe this. PA's, Nurses, and others in the field have extensive education, and doctors more so. Like any profession, there are some people better at the job than others, but the level of education and intelligence required to do the job even at the lowest level requires a lot of education. There are doctors in specialty fields that require so much training now that they don't even really begin "working" until they are 30 or older due to the training. A patient comes in with a headache or stomach ache and those symptoms could be any of 100's of different problems that could require anything from simple rest to extensive surgery, chemo or radiotherapy, etc..

There is no diagnosis coming from the info entered into a tablet. Stuff can be flagged from bloodwork, etc... but the doctor has to take a LOT of other things into consideration before making a formal diagnosis, and suggest the best course of action on treatment.

While we aren't there yet, it does seem to be coming. Remember the Jeopardy champion Watson?

http://www.businessinsider.com/ibms-watson-may-soon-be-the-best-doctor-in-the-world-2014-4
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...computer-isn-t-a-pacemaker-ibm-tells-congress