Homemade Annealing Machine

[justeric]

I see that some have made their own home made Annealing Machines. I would like to make something similar to the Bench Source annealing machine. It rotates a disk that holds the shells. It stops/waits for from 3 to 6 seconds depending on the users dialed in time and then rotates all the shells to their next location. Here's a link to a picture of the machine.
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f28/bench-source-annealing-machine-special-offer-price-88901/

My questions are:
Where do you find a motor that runs that slowly? I suspect the motor is set to run at 1 full revolution for every 3 to 6 seconds and that speed is adjustable.

I think the motor turns a stick that contacts part of the shell holder disk one time every revolution. As the stick contacts the shell holder, it indexes the shell holder one position. The RMP of the machine determines how long the shells stay in position before moving to their next position. This is a mechanical solution.

Is there an electronic solution to turn the motor off for a period of 3 to 6 seconds (adjustable) and then turn the motor on and let it run for 1/10 of a revolution? The pattern of start and stop would be the same until you turn the machine off or adjust the wait period. If you can control a motor like this, the motor could be directly connected to the rotating shell base.

If your not to confused by my question, please weigh in with your thoughts.

Thanks,
Eric

 

[smdub]

Look for gearhead DC motors. They have low rpm at full voltage. You can reduce that to get very low.

 

[guthook]

Aren't you supposed to quench the case in water after heating? Spinning a few cases in a circle and letting them cool slowly doesn't sound right. I guess you could pluck them out one at a time to quench and reload another in it's place, but that would defeat the purpose of an automated machine.

Has to be a way to fill an automatic case feeder with brass, let fall onto some type of conveyor belt to be heated and end up in a bucket of water.

EDIT: There are adjustable relays and timers that can be used for stopping the case every 3-6 seconds.

 

[smdub]

Annealing is supposed to be a slow cool. Hardening is a rapid cool. Though I suspect a brass case cools so fast in air it's well below the critical temp before it goes into water you see people doing so no harm done.

 

[IndispensableDestiny]

Brass can only be hardened by cold working it. Quenching or not quenching has no effect on the brass.

Amazon has a number of DC gear motors. I looked at this one for a design idea I have. What I don't know is how low the speed will go, it's rated at 50 rpm max.

If you have two burners, there is no need for the machine to stop like the Bench Source annealing machine does. You should have a way to keep the brass rotating while is passes through the flames. Varying the flame distance and rotational speed will adjust the temperature of the brass.

 

[guthook]

Annealing is supposed to be a slow cool. Hardening is a rapid cool. Though I suspect a brass case cools so fast in air it's well below the critical temp before it goes into water you see people doing so no harm done.

Had to do a little research on that.

Seems that applies to steel, but brass is unaffected by rapid cooling. The process is way more involved than I originally thought.

I just learned more that I ever wanted to know about annealing.

 

[justeric]

Aren't you supposed to quench the case in water after heating? Spinning a few cases in a circle and letting them cool slowly doesn't sound right. I guess you could pluck them out one at a time to quench and reload another in it's place, but that would defeat the purpose of an automated machine.

Has to be a way to fill an automatic case feeder with brass, let fall onto some type of conveyor belt to be heated and end up in a bucket of water.

EDIT: There are adjustable relays and timers that can be used for stopping the case every 3-6 seconds.

The case position after the burner has a hole so the round drops from the shell holder into a container with or without water. The user then puts another case in its place when the disk moves again.

I don't think it matters if you quench the case or not. If you quench it, then you have to dry it.

 

[guthook]

The case position after the burner has a hole so the round drops from the shell holder into a container with or without water. The user then puts another case in its place when the disk moves again.

I don't think it matters if you quench the case or not. If you quench it, then you have to dry it.

Yeah, I just learned a lot from the link I posted. The brass I shoot is so readily available, I just chucked 'em when they went bad. Never did the annealing thing.

Learn something new every day.

 

[Pinecone]

You can used a geared motor and a some form of indexing. What comes to mine is a disk with a pin. The pin contacts a tooth on the plate moving the casings. You adjust the motor so that the plate indexes every so many seconds.

But the better annealers have the cases rotate as they are heated, to be more even. So the plate moves continuously, and the cases rest against a fixed disk, so they rotate.

You can also set up an electronic circuit to bump the motor every so often.

Your choice.

Personally, I am going to just buy a Giraud.

 

[ourway77]

While well worth it. It's not for the casual re-loader. One would need to anneal a ton of brass to make it pay for it's self. Brass is available reasonable enough (Once Fired) That for some one like me that doesn't shoot as much anymore it would just take up space for all the junk I already have LOL

 

[Jaybeez]

I would look at the giraud annealing machine

its looks like a better design and fairly simple to replicate
http://m14forum.com/ammunition/104897-giraud-annealing-machine.html

 

[Pinecone]

While I somewhat agree, I have a good bit of very nice Lapua .308 brass that I want to keep using again and again.

And I want something automated, so I don't have to sit and feed cases into it.

 

[John from MD]

While I somewhat agree, I have a good bit of very nice Lapua .308 brass that I want to keep using again and again.

And I want something automated, so I don't have to sit and feed cases into it.

As an old competitive shooter, I annealed my brass for years. I also had to make my own brass which required annealing also.

I found that every fifth firing was sufficient for consistently accurate loads. We didn't have the fancy equipment that is available today. Mostly we used temp sicks and a propane torch. It was simple and it worked.

 

[Gordon]

Stick with above,propane

 

[Pinecone]

Actually a lot of people use a cordless drill or cordless electric screwdriver. A socket to hold the case and a torch. The drill/screwdriver rotates the case for even heating.

But I can't imagine facing 500 cases doing it that way.

 

[Major03]

Actually a lot of people use a cordless drill or cordless electric screwdriver. A socket to hold the case and a torch. The drill/screwdriver rotates the case for even heating.

But I can't imagine facing 500 cases doing it that way.

It's a pretty fast process, sorta like swagging primer pockets. Once you get the rhythm going it doesn't take long to get through a lot of em.

It definitely extends case life (by about a factor of 10X), and I think it improves neck tension consistency and thus accuracy...although to be honest I've never scientifically measured group sizes using a control group vs. experimental group of annealed cases.

What it does...applying the right amount of heat for the right amount of time softens the neck of your brass. The cartridge's job is to expand and seal the chamber, forcing the pressure to move the projectile down the barrel. Furthermore, it must "spring" back to a smaller size and enable extraction. As it does this, it "work hardens" the brass until eventually it no longer has the "springy" characteristics it needs and the neck splits (sorta like when you bend a coat hanger back and forth until eventually it "work hardens" to the point where it breaks). Cartridges are pretty complex though...how hard or soft the brass varies along the length of the case. The case body and web of the cartridge are "harder" relatively than the neck...and need to stay that way.

It is possible to apply too much heat and make the neck too soft (best case senario, and it'll made for a "sticky" extraction) or even make the case body and web too soft (worst case, as it can result in a face full of gun parts).

Some thoughts for those who are considering the less expensive butane torch method:

Like all things in reloading...consistency is key. It is possible to over anneal cases. At best, it softens the brass to the point where neck tension is non-existent...at worst it can soften the case's body and web and can result in a dangerous accident.

Buy a low cost metronome or download an app for your phone. It takes the guess work out of how long you heat your necks. For a .308 cartridge...I'd say 6 seconds is about right. 5 seconds for a .556 case. You can confirm times for yourself by using a product like Templac.

Better to under anneal (just a waste of your time) than over anneal (sticky bolts, worse accuracy, and possibly a dangerous explosion of gun parts next to your face).

Here's a great article on the intricacies and the science of annealing.

http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html

 

[Weber]

I just started building mine today, here it is so far.

Short video of it spinning.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/...E2953E00-390-0000013FCFE1F6FF_zps1254d2d9.mp4

 

[John from MD]

Cool! I love American ingenuity.

 

[hylomar]

I just started building mine today, here it is so far.

Short video of it spinning.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/...E2953E00-390-0000013FCFE1F6FF_zps1254d2d9.mp4

Do you have plans you are working from or are you making it up as you go? Did you manufacture the plate yourself?

 

[Weber]

No plans, in just figuring it out how I want it.

The plate comes from a guy on castbullets named jmorris. He sells the plate with a layout plan if you want to use his layout.

I wanted to go a little more compact and lighter design.

I'm messing with the case spinner now, it seems to be very picky on alignment.