Home invaders that shout "Police"

[StantonCree]

removed as to attempt to not makes waves..............

 

[Norton]

I have little hope that someone won't cause a thread derail to the point that this has to be closed, but let it be noted that I'm trying mighty hard.

One of these days, it just might be possible for discussions like this to remain rational.

We will try to keep this open and will be moderating out posts that are simply being provocative for the sake of doing so.

If you feel that you can't participate in the discussion under those guidelines, there's a lot of other threads you can take part in.

 

[StantonCree]

I have little hope that someone won't cause a thread derail to the point that this has to be closed, but let it be noted that I'm trying mighty hard.

One of these days, it just might be possible for discussions like this to remain rational.

We will try to keep this open and will be moderating out posts that are simply being provocative for the sake of doing so.

If you feel that you can't participate in the discussion under those guidelines, there's a lot of other threads you can take part in.

I see my previous joke was deleted, my bad boss, it was intended to be in good fun.

 

[Norton]

I see my previous joke was deleted, my bad boss, it was intended to be in good fun.

No worries.....some people won't interpret humor as it was intended. In the best interest of not being accused of slamming every cop thread closed reflexively, trying to keep a narrow rein for now.

 

[Ethan83]

This is my worst fear. I figure being an upright citizen living in Baltimore City, my odds of it being criminals are higher than mistaken cops. If it is in the fact the latter, I'll most likely end up dead. Possibly others too, depending on what I end up grabbing. This is why I hate everything about no-knocks - innocent people on both sides end up dead unnecessarily. I think the practice is absolutely indefensible in any but the most ludicrously contrived situations imaginable.

 

[Inigoes]

Most dropped 911 or E911 test calls only get a callback from the PSAP operator if their call/work load allows and your contact info displays correctly on the operators' console display during the initial Phase 1.

Open line with no response would and should get an officer dispatched in those cases

In Saint Marys you will get a visit, no matter what, 100% when called from a landline. Proved that theory, no answer the faster the response (compared to when you answer).

 

[Huckleberry]

In Saint Marys you will get a visit, no matter what, 100% when called from a landline. Proved that theory, no answer the faster the response (compared to when you answer).

Well, your lucky because most jurisdictions do not have the manpower to investigate 911 hangups or dropped calls. I can tell you that with cellular that the initial address given is the street address of the cell site that is handling the OTA portion of your call. Phase 2 or WP2 information is relayed upon the operators rebid request for additional caller information. This information can be either spot on thanks to GPS or within 25 meters of your position if your carrier uses a network based location system instead of GPS.

Also, most professional assaulters of a domicile are going to attempt to cut phone lines and power to isolate their objective before kicking in the door or doors.

Now the really question for you is the St.Marys SD/PD or local PoPo's response time to a hangup vs open line vs positive contact. Again with positive contact, the PSAP operator is going to have information and radio communication regarding a SWAT in your living room versus a pack of goblins or skinnies

 

[Huckleberry]

One of the best things you can do is have barriers that slow people down, this gives you time to react and possibly call someone who cares or to begin a negotiation process with people outside attempting to breach.

Not much sense in pressing an attack (either for criminals or badged perpetrators) when the element of surprise is lost, that's how both good guys and bad guys end up getting killed.

Once they have lost the edge, police will attempt to negotiate, and criminals will often leave not willing to press a bad situation.

This is probably the most overlook fact. Modern homes are built less secured and more accessible due to lower quality building materials to control cost and increase builders' profits; poor arcitectual design do to false social realizations and concerns of the architect.

Look at pioneer or frontier homes still standing around the country. Homes built with heavy front doors, working shutters (some with rifle loops) and heavy walls to withstand attacks from certain hostile Native American groups or bandits. Homes built to be a man's castle or fort.

Another topic to consider for modern homes is denying any home attackers cover and concealment, especially the use if darkness and shadows at night.

 

[SRTMO]

If they are outside asking for a response, ask to see ID before opening the door. If you're still not convinced, tell them you are calling 911 to confirm who they are because you're not sure of the ID.

Full SWAT teams would be the ones doing No Knock entries. They will be easy to identify.

For knock and announce, you WILL see uniforms mixed in to the stack & you'll probably see marked patrol cars also.

Don't neglect the Knock & Talk too. They may be there to simply talk about an issue.

 

[Inigoes]

Full SWAT teams would be the ones doing No Knock entries. They will be easy to identify.

See post #8

 

[SRTMO]

See post #8

That was obviously not a SWAT team. The tactics weren't there, nor the gear or manpower associated with a SWAT executed No Knock.

The man at the door opened the door for them anyway.

 

[rondon600]

One of the best things you can do is have barriers that slow people down, this gives you time to react and possibly call someone who cares or to begin a negotiation process with people outside attempting to breach.

Not much sense in pressing an attack (either for criminals or badged perpetrators) when the element of surprise is lost, that's how both good guys and bad guys end up getting killed.

Once they have lost the edge, police will attempt to negotiate, and criminals will often leave not willing to press a bad situation.

would love to see the look on the guys face slinging the door ram when he realizes the reinforcements. At this point its easier to apply the sawzall to my aluminum siding!

 

[STSCM]

While this wasn't a SWAT kind of action, and in fact rather humorous, late one evening the doorbell goes off, peek through the thang in the door and see two guys in uniform standing on my doorstep and a whole bunch of red and blue lights making a halo around them. In that case there was 0 doubt as to who they were.
Now, if laying in bed, 0215 in the morning and hear the door burst open, dog going ape and sounds of feet running through the house, what will I do? Hope I choose right is all I can say, protect the wife or die for the wife, Hobson's choice.

 

[tdt91]

This pretty much. I know I haven't done anything wrong, so if they come kicking the door yelling police it is probably more likely to be bad guys.

But you own guns, you must be a bad guy.

When things get real bad and the Government come to take our guns, this is what will happen.
They will make something up about you being a bad guy, they will bust down your door and either arrest you or kill you. Then they will go on TV and tell the world that they found a cashe of weapons and ammo at a suspects house. He had enough ammo to start WWIII. blah blah blah. BE WARNED!

They won't be able to do that with me though, they will laugh when they see my so called cashe.

 

[randomjoe]

So I'm not trying to start waves, but I find it interesting that:

1. Media articles that are anti-gun are immediately dismissed on here as misinformed, anti-gun, pro-liberal, etc and anyone who would believe the media is mistaken

2. Media articles that outline anti-police or police involved incidents are always true, quoted liberally on here and touted as fact. In fact, some of these responses included statements such as "the police do too many no-knocks" without any qualification or facts backing it up. If the statement was "more people are killed accidentally by their own guns" there'd be a flurry of posts demanding facts and figures.

Just kinda hippocritical in my opinion.

 

[tdt91]

So I'm not trying to start waves, but I find it interesting that:

1. Media articles that are anti-gun are immediately dismissed on here as misinformed, anti-gun, pro-liberal, etc and anyone who would believe the media is mistaken

2. Media articles that outline anti-police or police involved incidents are always true, quoted liberally on here and touted as fact. In fact, some of these responses included statements such as "the police do too many no-knocks" without any qualification or facts backing it up. If the statement was "more people are killed accidentally by their own guns" there'd be a flurry of posts demanding facts and figures.

Just kinda hippocritical in my opinion.

Good point but thats because we are all Pro 2A.
It works the opposite way when it comes to the media. Like reporting with bias by omission. This happens all day every day.

 

[Dogabutila]

So I'm not trying to start waves, but I find it interesting that:

1. Media articles that are anti-gun are immediately dismissed on here as misinformed, anti-gun, pro-liberal, etc and anyone who would believe the media is mistaken

2. Media articles that outline anti-police or police involved incidents are always true, quoted liberally on here and touted as fact. In fact, some of these responses included statements such as "the police do too many no-knocks" without any qualification or facts backing it up. If the statement was "more people are killed accidentally by their own guns" there'd be a flurry of posts demanding facts and figures.

Just kinda hippocritical in my opinion.

Quick how many no-knocks do police do in a year? No search engines.

 

[Wapato]

Media articles that outline anti-police or police involved incidents are always true, quoted liberally on here and touted as fact. In fact, some of these responses included statements such as "the police do too many no-knocks" without any qualification or facts backing it up. If the statement was "more people are killed accidentally by their own guns" there'd be a flurry of posts demanding facts and figures.

For the most part I think most people in this thread aren't anti police at all.

I don't imagine them kicking in my door because they're THE MAN and somebody threw a dart at a map. They've either got the wrong address, or somebody gave them some wrong info (I'm so square and law abiding it's ridiculous).

They don't want to be risking their lives in the wrong house, and I imagine they would feel bad about gunning me down once somebody double checked their info, even if I'd taken out the point man.

But I really really don't want things to go that way.


The really useful seeming info is if it is true that the police (barring somebody screaming inside or something) won't kick in a door unless there are a whole bunch of them with full swat gear.

Realistically if a dozen guys in full body armor and with assault weapons and maybe a ballsitic shield are rushing my place, maybe putting the gun down is just all around the better bet.

Quick how many no-knocks do police do in a year? No search engines.

I'd actually be curious about any info related to that even with a search engine.

It seems like invaders yelling "Police!" is quite popular, but maybe misled no knocks are actually incredibly rare. And the ones in the national news are the only ones that have occured.

 

[steves1911]

I cant imagine no-nock raids on the wrong house occur more than maybe 1 a year. Probably less....or atleast i hope so. Seems like things of that nature would get out to the media awfully fast and we would hear about it. That said if it happend to me i would be very upset as i love my dogs and i know they are gonna go in full beast mode if police kick in my door not leaving the police much choice.

 

[steves1911]

Just did a google search for "police raid wrong house" lots of hits but when you dig farther a lot of those are from the same incident. I went through 6 pages and found just one where the wrong person was killed because of it. Several where dogs where killed and one where a 13 year old girl had an asthma attack brought on by the incident. I also found one where they raided a circuit court judges house accidently . Worse i found one that claimed the same house was accidently raided 41 times. No that wasnt a misprint 41 times. Reading the article not all of those were no-nock so take it for what its worth.