HK USC ---> UMP conversion (922r compliant) legal in MD ?!?!

[snick97]

Hey boys!

I am assuming the USC is cash and carry, but if you ordered a USC -> UMP conversion, already converted and 922r compliant.

Is everything kosher in the eyes of MD?
Is it still cash and carry?
Does it need to a have fixed stock?
Does it need to have a Limited magazine cap? (I know you can't BUY 21+ rounders in MD, but if you purchased some outside of MD and used them in MD, is it ok? The original USC is limited to 10-rounders... (by HK))

Sorry for all the q.'s, tried to search but doesn't look like anyone's tackled it before.

Edit: Sorry forgot to specify, NON-NFA --- keeping the 16.13” barrel

 

[netsurferdude2]

I cant answer much but about the magazine capacity.

It is totally legal to own and use magazine with a capacity greater thatn 20 rounds in
It is illegal to sell or buy them here.


Go out of state to pick up a few and bring them home.

 

[snick97]

hm, not sure if the folding stock of the UMP conversion is legal

it is fixed on the USC

 

[Numidian]

hm, not sure if the folding stock of the UMP conversion is legal

it is fixed on the USC

Why would the folding stock be illegal? I've got 2 guns in my safe right now with folding stocks...

Misinformation in the gun community is worse than the actual laws when it comes to making things difficult....

 

[snick97]

Why would the folding stock be illegal? I've got 2 guns in my safe right now with folding stocks...

Misinformation in the gun community is worse than the actual laws when it comes to making things difficult....

thanks man. I get really confused (I guess that's the point). I remember an out of state retailer telling me folding stocks were illegal in MD on non-NFA items .. then finding out they weren't.

I just couldn't remember which it is.

 

[mikec]

snick, plenty of collapsible stocked AR's are being sold in this state.

MD law is rather simple if you think about it. ALL rifles are LEGAL. Certain rifles require more paperwork to buy. They are called "regulated firearms". NFA arms are legal and they have their own rules, but the State Police will sign off on all forms. (It may take a long while to get the forma back, but they sign them.)

As for magazines, buy them out of state, bring them home. Just don't trade or barter them here.

PS Regulated firearms require you to be 21+ yrs old.

 

[irishman538]

It is illegal if the magazine is over 10 rounds and not made in America. I haven't taken a gander at the floor plates in a while, but the best practice (IMHO) is to replace the floor plates of the mags to ones made in America (I looked into this topic during law school and while living not only in MD, but in Mo.Co. and it has to do with certain parts and whether the number of imported parts exceed it... by my count, the magazine was the one part that could work to take you out of violating the law with ease).

One piece of advise: remember to remove the trigger group that comes with the UMP lower you buy (probably a navy) and replace the appropriate parts with the original trigger group, otherwise the polymer "hammer" will get dinged up pretty fast... the auto sear doesn't matter legally because the gun cannot actually fire repeat shots (actually when turned to full auto, the navy trigger group renders the weapon single shot...).

 

[Hellphish]

It is illegal if the magazine is over 10 rounds and not made in America. I haven't taken a gander at the floor plates in a while, but the best practice (IMHO) is to replace the floor plates of the mags to ones made in America (I looked into this topic during law school and while living not only in MD, but in Mo.Co. and it has to do with certain parts and whether the number of imported parts exceed it... by my count, the magazine was the one part that could work to take you out of violating the law with ease).

One piece of advise: remember to remove the trigger group that comes with the UMP lower you buy (probably a navy) and replace the appropriate parts with the original trigger group, otherwise the polymer "hammer" will get dinged up pretty fast... the auto sear doesn't matter legally because the gun cannot actually fire repeat shots (actually when turned to full auto, the navy trigger group renders the weapon single shot...).

since when was it illegal to have an 11+ round mag?

 

[smores]

Folding stock is no problem.

I know a guy who did this conversion, but also got an SBR stamp for it and has the full-auto trigger housing (not the actual trigger pack) so it has all the cool pictograms and whatever. Kinda pointless, but he's a nut for that tactical stuff. I thought I was bad until I met him. He's got every model of Beretta 92 that existed pretty much, every gen of full-sized Glock 9mm, tons of SIGs... etc.

 

[Hawkeye]

Hey boys!

I am assuming the USC is cash and carry,

No, it isn't. The USC, (IIRC, I bought mine a long time ago) is a regulated firearm.

but if you ordered a USC -> UMP conversion, already converted and 922r compliant.

Is everything kosher in the eyes of MD?
Is it still cash and carry?

No, as I said above, it's regulated.

Does it need to a have fixed stock?

No.

Does it need to have a Limited magazine cap? (I know you can't BUY 21+ rounders in MD, but if you purchased some outside of MD and used them in MD, is it ok? The original USC is limited to 10-rounders... (by HK))

No, as long as it's 922r compliant, like you mentioned above. You just can't transfer the ownership of magazines of more than 20 rounds within the state of MD

Sorry for all the q.'s, tried to search but doesn't look like anyone's tackled it before.

Edit: Sorry forgot to specify, NON-NFA --- keeping the 16.13” barrel

Not a problem.

BTW, I actually have an original grey USC that's unconverted and is up for sale. It's in pretty good shape, and I can go take pics of it if you'd be interested.

 

[ezeerider]

Hey boys!

I am assuming the USC is cash and carry, but if you ordered a USC -> UMP conversion, already converted and 922r compliant.

Theres a HK USC with all the conversion parts & an Aimpoint M2 here:

http://ee.ar15.com/ItemView.aspx?iid=29864

HK USC Carbine for sale. Is in great shape accurate, and runs flawless. Has maybe 500 to 700 rounds run through it. All of the major parts pictured for UMP clone conversion are included. All you need is the stock block and any compliance parts from HDPS.org or a 8" barrel if you want to SBR this package. The following are included within the package:
USC dyed black,
3 10 rnd. USC Mags
6 25 rnd UMP Mags
HK FBI Lower
HK folding stock
HDPS rails (Top, bottom and sides Included)
HK 3 point Sling
2 UMP Mag clamps
Vertical Foregrip.
Aimpoint M2 and Mount Not Included but will be added for an additional $375.00 (For a total of $2,675 with Aimpoint.)
This package is worth $3,000.00 (but my loss is your gain. ($3,525.00 with the aimpoint and mount.) USPS Money order only.

This would save ya $850 over a new one. Just thought you might be interested.

 

[squirrels]

No, it isn't. The USC, (IIRC, I bought mine a long time ago) is a regulated firearm.

No, as I said above, it's regulated.

How so?

Is it on the Maryland "assault weapons" list?
Is it a "copy" of anything on the Maryland "assault weapons" list?
Does it interchange parts with anything on the Maryland "assault weapons" list?

www.mdsp.org/downloads/assault_weapons.pdf

I think I've talked to two different FFLs about that gun at some point in time. Neither said it was "regulated". It's considered a "sporting carbine", like the Beretta Cx4 Storm.

If yours was "regulated", it's probably because your dealer is so scared of MSP that he requires MD paperwork for ANYTHING that he believes could be REMOTELY considered an "assault weapon", instead of following the letter of the law.


LOL, I remember when I was interested in buying a USC. You guys remember when Entertech made those "AK Centerfire" repeating squirt-guns? That's what the USC felt like, except LESS sturdy. Damned if I was going to spend $1500 on a plastic rifle with a 10-round magazine and a scaffolding thumbhole stock, then spend another 2 grand making it look like the gun it SHOULD be, just because it was the closest thing a civvy can get to an MP5. HK can kiss my ass.

You can get an HK94 for 3-4 grand used and that's infinitely better than that polymer POS. If your dealer insists on transferring it regulated, you may as well get a gun that's ACTUALLY regulated.

OK...I'm done.

 

[Hawkeye]

How so?

Is it on the Maryland "assault weapons" list?
Is it a "copy" of anything on the Maryland "assault weapons" list?
Does it interchange parts with anything on the Maryland "assault weapons" list?

www.mdsp.org/downloads/assault_weapons.pdf

I think I've talked to two different FFLs about that gun at some point in time. Neither said it was "regulated". It's considered a "sporting carbine", like the Beretta Cx4 Storm.

If yours was "regulated", it's probably because your dealer is so scared of MSP that he requires MD paperwork for ANYTHING that he believes could be REMOTELY considered an "assault weapon", instead of following the letter of the law.

Well, like I said in my initial post, it was If I Recall Correctly, so I might be wrong - I bought mine about 8 years ago or so. I bought it at Continental in Timonium, and while I thought it was sold to me as regulated, I might be recalling incorrectly.

LOL, I remember when I was interested in buying a USC. You guys remember when Entertech made those "AK Centerfire" repeating squirt-guns? That's what the USC felt like, except LESS sturdy.

That's your opinion. The USC / UMP series is an extremely reliable, extremely simple and funcitonal design. I've never had problem one with mine. Yes, they're polymer, but that doesn't mean the same thing as a cheap plastic squirt gun.

You can get an HK94 for 3-4 grand used and that's infinitely better than that polymer POS.

Again, opinion. Yes, you can spend $3500 on a 94, and they're great guns. With unlimited funds, I would own one, certainly. Or, you can spend less than half of that and have a fun, reliable, accurate carbine that can handle some HOT loads (.45 Super anyone?) and is a blast to shoot. No, the USC/UMP will never be a 94 / MP5. They're something different, and that doesn't necessarily mean bad.

If your dealer insists on transferring it regulated, you may as well get a gun that's ACTUALLY regulated.

OK...I'm done.

Again, I might be remembering wrong. I have the paperwork at home in the case with the gun - I'll have to go look at it and see.

 

[Meditator]

I bought one when it first came out- before the recall for faulty charging handle. It was considered as Non regulated firearm. Reason why I could get it from a gun store in NOVA.

I traded it for a Hungarian AK folder several months later , still brand new,- never really like the idea of disassemble the rifle w/ hexagon key or 10rds magazine.

 

[irishman538]

since when was it illegal to have an 11+ round mag?

Because hi-cap magazine is on the list of parts to be considered under 922r. You can change other parts sure, but the floor plate of the magazine seems easiest. You can't have more than x number of parts made outside the US - adding a hi-cap magazine pushes that number past x. I would have to pull the statute to give a more "educated sounding" response, just pointing out, that it is a violation of federal law to do the standard UMP conversion I did if you don't change out the floor plates...