Hilton Yam "My Personal Path Away From The 1911"

[BradMacc82]

But is the Glock stock or modified?

 

[ohen cepel]

I have also moved away from the 1911 (and SA's) over the years. I like the 1911 and the Hi-Power a lot but would rather have a different operating system.

As has been said, people messing with things and trying to make them into something they aren't creates a lot of issues over time.

Would be curious to know how many factory AR's have issues out of the box vs the ones which guys have "improved" upon with a ton of tacticool parts.

 

[Traveler]

cough cough, Stock Glock 21, cough cough, 13 + 1, cough cough, spot on accurate, cough cough, reliable as all heck, cough cough.

 

[BradMacc82]

I have also moved away from the 1911 (and SA's) over the years. I like the 1911 and the Hi-Power a lot but would rather have a different operating system.

As has been said, people messing with things and trying to make them into something they aren't creates a lot of issues over time.

Would be curious to know how many factory AR's have issues out of the box vs the ones which guys have "improved" upon with a ton of tacticool parts.

I know my old piston-driven AR was a problem child out of the box, with no mods, other then that infernal piston set-up.

 

[aquaman]

Not what Im reading. Im reading that he likes to PERSONALLY carry a 1911 because he knows how to service the weapon himself. For a department/issue weapon he feels they are a bad choice because they are what they are.

I found this out the first year I started gunsmithing.


The Glock is headed the same place, manufacturer corner cutting, other companies making frames and slides, extensive "accuracy" mods, and in 30 years it will have a rep for being unreliable as well as being known for blowing up in certain calibers.

All a 1911 fan has to do is spend some time with a few gun schools and gunsmith shops and observe. The 1911 is not for the average Joe unless one wants to pay a great deal for one even then guns like N.H. have issues in classes.

so you are saying NOT to get a tactical machining 80% 1911 frame

 

[clandestine]

so you are saying NOT to get a tactical machining 80% 1911 frame

I wouldn't. More room for issues IMO

 

[clandestine]

I have also moved away from the 1911 (and SA's) over the years. I like the 1911 and the Hi-Power a lot but would rather have a different operating system.

As has been said, people messing with things and trying to make them into something they aren't creates a lot of issues over time.

Would be curious to know how many factory AR's have issues out of the box vs the ones which guys have "improved" upon with a ton of tacticool parts.

Depends on who makes the AR. There's the first issue, from there its mags, lube, and ammo. If its a quality mfg then it will have a reliability advantage over lower level ARs or high level ARs that some idiot decided to wescog it up.

 

[trickg]

But is the Glock stock or modified?

Probably wouldn't matter either way. Once again harkening back to when I was a kid and reading my Dad's G&A and American Rifleman magazines, I remember when the Glock was first coming out and coming on strong. The torture tests they put it through were unreal, but it kept functioning like a champ.

 

[clandestine]

Probably wouldn't matter either way. Once again harkening back to when I was a kid and reading my Dad's G&A and American Rifleman magazines, I remember when the Glock was first coming out and coming on strong. The torture tests they put it through were unreal, but it kept functioning like a champ.

The barrel and facroty mags are a huge reason glocks are known for reliability. Put in an aftermarket mag or barrel and its a roll of the dice. Glock barrels and magazines are superb for reliability.

 

[BradMacc82]

Probably wouldn't matter either way. Once again harkening back to when I was a kid and reading my Dad's G&A and American Rifleman magazines, I remember when the Glock was first coming out and coming on strong. The torture tests they put it through were unreal, but it kept functioning like a champ.

The barrel and factory mags are a huge reason glocks are known for reliability. Put in an aftermarket mag or barrel and its a roll of the dice. Glock barrels and magazines are superb for reliability.

And THAT is why I asked.

 

[Uncle Duke]

Remember the stuff you buy today is nothing close to your grandfathers G.I. 1911.

This!

The old G.I. 1911's often rattled and they worked unless they were abused. I feel like long winded responses are lost in discussions like this, but the best way I can explain is to say the people making and building them took more pride in what they produced than production 1911 manufacturers do today. The great Generation...

There was also just a few brands of ammo made back in the day so there wasn't a wide variance in how the weapon operated. Now there is a thousand variants of .45ACP. Same for magazines.


Same reason that AR's have a bad reputation. People not maintaining them, using junk mags, not lubing them correctly, a million different manufacturers with different QC standards, unskilled smiths/armorers, tightening chambers and tolerances, countless ammunition, gas system, recoil assembly, and chamber variations/coatings.

When certain guns become "Common" and "Popular" the weapon often suffers from that popularity because of "upgrades"

Tolerances.....
Making it so tight that it jams up on a grain of sand.[/QUOTE]

Interesting thread! I am largely not a semi-auto guy. I do love 1911's for range use.

Just me, but I'd be much more confident and inclined in picking up a 45Colt revolver before I'd pick up a 1911 in a time of need. Boils down (for me) to having 45 "thump" without what I might call the potential ACP "frump".

Clandestine, I know you work on these for a living. That means you'll have forgotten more about these than I'm ever going to remember. Seems like you're saying that purposeful....perhaps beautiful....slop was built into the original design by craftsmen who knew what they were doing. And the design wasn't broken, but it seems like everybody since has been trying to fix it. So they shoot tight.....when they shoot.....

So my question is this. Who comes closest today in a current production 1911 to building in the requisite "quality slop" that is more likely to replicate the functionality and reliability of the original design?

Appreciate your thoughts on this.

 

[BradMacc82]

Chad would have a better database of who's making a decent 1911 these days.

From my limited experience with modern 1911's, Taurus and the other Phillipine makers have kept just enough slop to keep them reliable, but tight enough to where they shoot nice and straight.

The finishes tend to be a little thin though.

 

[SCARCQB]

This is why 1911 s require some kind of break in period as to loosen up the parts and get some slop into the fitment of parts.

Most will not work reliably out of the box.

Add spay on finishes, aftermarket parts, the quest for lighter triggers. A good combat pistol becomes a jammer.

Polymer pistols are tighter in fitment , they compendate for the lack of slop by allowing the frame to flex.
This is why add ons to polymer framed pistols such as rail mounted taclights have a detrimental effect on reliaibility in modern polymer framed pistols. Its stiffens the frame and reduces the ability of the frame to flex.

 

[clandestine]

Tolerances.....
Making it so tight that it jams up on a grain of sand.[/QUOTE]

Interesting thread! I am largely not a semi-auto guy. I do love 1911's for range use.

Just me, but I'd be much more confident and inclined in picking up a 45Colt revolver before I'd pick up a 1911 in a time of need. Boils down (for me) to having 45 "thump" without what I might call the potential ACP "frump".

Clandestine, I know you work on these for a living. That means you'll have forgotten more about these than I'm ever going to remember. Seems like you're saying that purposeful....perhaps beautiful....slop was built into the original design by craftsmen who knew what they were doing. And the design wasn't broken, but it seems like everybody since has been trying to fix it. So they shoot tight.....when they shoot.....

So my question is this. Who comes closest today in a current production 1911 to building in the requisite "quality slop" that is more likely to replicate the functionality and reliability of the original design?

Appreciate your thoughts on this.

My advice would to buy a FULL SIZE, STEEL FRAMED, Standard model Colt 1911 (no series 80) and buy an upgraded fire control group with a duty kit from cylinder and slide. Have a good 1911 gunsmith install the kit and ask for him to go over it and emphasize RELIABILITY. A good 1911 pistolsmith will see anything not right before it is amplified by any changes. Most of the changes will be at the frame ramp and the barrel mouth because colt really screws up the barrel mouth throating on their 1911s.

Use some good mags like tripp mags and factory ammo. Lube it well and beyond the above and changing sights leave the rest of the gun alone. The gun will run like a top and compete with any glock, hk, or anything else. Every 5k rounds replace the recoil springs and you will love the gun.

Doing this means you have a colt which retains value well, is not something a pistolsmith will refuse work for, and will not break the bank.

If you have meaty hands then consider a factory colt with an upgraded beavertail grip saftey because adding one with a refinish is NOT cost effective.

 

[SCARCQB]

The onlything going strong with the 1911 is its single action trigger. No production pistol can come close to its crisp break and feel. This is why the 1911 is accurate.

Compare it to other pistols using a Ransom rest and its advantage in terms of accuracy diminishes. ( take out the human factor).

But with that stated, im still a 1911 fanboy. Im partial to my Kimber and a Colt series 70 Goldcup. These are my favorite range guns... But my CCW piece is a Glock32

 

[amoebicmagician]

Although the 1911 is an old girl, if it is made as it was originally designed, and out of quality components, it will run like a top

As long as you don't cram full length guide rods and super crazy tight tolerances into the gun trying to make it into something it's not, you probably won't have any problems.

That said, I feel like nearly all the 1911s available today are overpriced crap.

 

[Uncle Duke]

My advice would to buy a FULL SIZE, STEEL FRAMED, Standard model Colt 1911 (no series 80) and buy an upgraded fire control group with a duty kit from cylinder and slide. Have a good 1911 gunsmith install the kit and ask for him to go over it and emphasize RELIABILITY. A good 1911 pistolsmith will see anything not right before it is amplified by any changes. Most of the changes will be at the frame ramp and the barrel mouth because colt really screws up the barrel mouth throating on their 1911s.

Use some good mags like tripp mags and factory ammo. Lube it well and beyond the above and changing sights leave the rest of the gun alone. The gun will run like a top and compete with any glock, hk, or anything else. Every 5k rounds replace the recoil springs and you will love the gun.

Doing this means you have a colt which retains value well, is not something a pistolsmith will refuse work for, and will not break the bank.

If you have meaty hands then consider a factory colt with an upgraded beavertail grip saftey because adding one with a refinish is NOT cost effective.

Thanks! Much appreciate the insight!

 

[trickg]

The barrel and facroty mags are a huge reason glocks are known for reliability. Put in an aftermarket mag or barrel and its a roll of the dice. Glock barrels and magazines are superb for reliability.

And THAT is why I asked.

Gotcha - I don't own a Glock, so I didn't realize that was an issue. The closest I have is a Walther P99 and an H&K USP 45, but I only have factory mags and barrels in those.

 

[Arcamm]

What's so bad about the 80 series?

 

[501st]

Tolerances.....
Making it so tight that it jams up on a grain of sand.[/QUOTE]

Interesting thread! I am largely not a semi-auto guy. I do love 1911's for range use.

Just me, but I'd be much more confident and inclined in picking up a 45Colt revolver before I'd pick up a 1911 in a time of need. Boils down (for me) to having 45 "thump" without what I might call the potential ACP "frump".

Clandestine, I know you work on these for a living. That means you'll have forgotten more about these than I'm ever going to remember. Seems like you're saying that purposeful....perhaps beautiful....slop was built into the original design by craftsmen who knew what they were doing. And the design wasn't broken, but it seems like everybody since has been trying to fix it. So they shoot tight.....when they shoot.....

So my question is this. Who comes closest today in a current production 1911 to building in the requisite "quality slop" that is more likely to replicate the functionality and reliability of the original design?

Appreciate your thoughts on this.

Rock Island Armory

They make entry level models, though.

For higher end models (internal extractor), a NM prefix springfield, or standard colt is the way to go.

For external extractors, smith and wesson has the advantage.