HBAR scenario

[Daniel87]

This may have been answered somewhere but I tried finding it in another thread and couldn't.

I understand the difference between a non Hbar and Hbar being regulated vs non regulated....but

just curious, are the lowers on an Hbar identical to a regular lower (without a serial number)?

Hypothetical: if someone bought an Hbar unregulated AR, removed the HBAr and replaced it with a regular upper they now have basically an unregulated non Hbar AR-15? is this correct? If so isnt this a major loophole after Oct. 1.

 

[ken792]

Yes they are identical. The exception would be a Colt Sporter HBAR, which had some slight differences to discourage changing out the upper.

No, it is illegal to manufacture a banned long gun after 10/1. Yes, one can physically do it, but it's illegal.

 

[OrbitalEllipses]

No, it is illegal to manufacture a banned long gun after 10/1. Yes, one can physically do it, but it's illegal.

So no buying a lower pre-10/1 and assembling it post-10/1 with a flash hider, vertical foregrip, etc.?

 

[dblas]

Yes they are identical. The exception would be a Colt Sporter HBAR, which had some slight differences to discourage changing out the upper.

No, it is illegal to manufacture a banned long gun after 10/1. Yes, one can physically do it, but it's illegal.

Manufacture - yes, assemble - no.

Manufacture generally notes for profit. Swapping uppers is not manufacturing by any sense of the word. It is, however, assemble, by every sense of the word.

 

[dblas]

So no buying a lower pre-10/1 and assembling it post-10/1 with a flash hider, vertical foregrip, etc.?

Right now, MSP says no per the information sessions they are having.

 

[fabsroman]

Right now, MSP says no per the information sessions they are having.

Whoa.

Are you saying that MSP is saying that a lower cannot be assembled post October 1, 2013 into a banned configuration? Are you saying that if a lower is not assembled into a complete gun by October 1, 2013, it cannot be assembled into anything other than an HBAR? If so, that is going to be some serious litigation there.

What happens if a person has an 18" non-HBAR barrel on their AR-15 come October 1, 2013 and on November 1, 2013 they want to change it to a 16" non-HBAR barrel? Can that modification be made after October 1, 2013?

Honestly, this entire thing has me so damn confused that I am just about to go and spend another $5k and be done with this. The headache just is not worth it.

SBR is not banned. It is banned. Some might be banned some might not.

Stripped lowers can be assembled after October 1, 2013 if they were possessed before October 1, 2013. Not they cannot. Yes they can.

Where is that pez dispenser and the Cognac?

Much less painful to just spend the money and be done with it.

 

[necrodude]

Whoa.

Are you saying that MSP is saying that a lower cannot be assembled post October 1, 2013 into a banned configuration? Are you saying that if a lower is not assembled into a complete gun by October 1, 2013, it cannot be assembled into anything other than an HBAR? If so, that is going to be some serious litigation there.

What happens if a person has an 18" non-HBAR barrel on their AR-15 come October 1, 2013 and on November 1, 2013 they want to change it to a 16" non-HBAR barrel? Can that modification be made after October 1, 2013?

Honestly, this entire thing has me so damn confused that I am just about to go and spend another $5k and be done with this. The headache just is not worth it.

SBR is not banned. It is banned. Some might be banned some might not.

Stripped lowers can be assembled after October 1, 2013 if they were possessed before October 1, 2013. Not they cannot. Yes they can.

Where is that pez dispenser and the Cognac?

Much less painful to just spend the money and be done with it.

yeah your not the only one that is confused I wish they would just come out and say it already if it will be legal or not.

 

[photoracer]

I think you are all talking apples and oranges here. What they are saying is you can't reassemble a C&C rifle into an NFA one after 10/1. Because the serial number is on the lower if you are ever caught with a non-HBAR upper on it you are committing a crime in the PRM. If you have a stripped lower you can make it into anything you want as long as you have any needed licenses from the ATF (i.e. SBR, suppressed, etc.) or not as needed. But anything sold as a non-NFA item can't be reassembled into an NFA item based on the serial numbers of the lower. This has always been the case even before SB281. Once that HBAR is in the system it can't be changed to something else. A lower can be built into anything. However putting an HBAR top on does not make it a C&C rifle. It will still be classified as an NFA item.
If you can follow what I am saying anyway.

 

[Brooklyn]

Whoa.

Are you saying that MSP is saying that a lower cannot be assembled post October 1, 2013 into a banned configuration? Are you saying that if a lower is not assembled into a complete gun by October 1, 2013, it cannot be assembled into anything other than an HBAR? If so, that is going to be some serious litigation there.

What happens if a person has an 18" non-HBAR barrel on their AR-15 come October 1, 2013 and on November 1, 2013 they want to change it to a 16" non-HBAR barrel? Can that modification be made after October 1, 2013?

Honestly, this entire thing has me so damn confused that I am just about to go and spend another $5k and be done with this. The headache just is not worth it.

SBR is not banned. It is banned. Some might be banned some might not.

Stripped lowers can be assembled after October 1, 2013 if they were possessed before October 1, 2013. Not they cannot. Yes they can.

Where is that pez dispenser and the Cognac?

Much less painful to just spend the money and be done with it.

I doubt that will be the case.
But I did "spend the money and be done with it" on full rifles.. Ant lowers will be gravy --- I think that our friend is confusing the hbar to non hbar issue--- which is also suspect, but less so.

To be safe do it now if you can...

 

[River Mud]

Right now, MSP says no per the information sessions they are having.

I've heard that from several folks as well, which is where we get into the "policy vs. regulation vs. law" debate. I deal with this in the enviro world frequently.

MSP, it appears, wishes to set POLICY that manufacture = assembly. A poor and overly broad interpretation of the AG-vetted, legislature-approved regulation (SB-281)that could make LEO's jobs easier when coming across AR parts in the course of another investigation.

I'm not a lawyer BUT current regulations (not proposed to be changed on 10/1) pose that a stripped lower IS THE AR. If you have a stripped lower, you are the owner of an AR. There's no need to hash out "manufacturing" beyond that IMHO.

That being said, for reasons I don't have to explain here, all of my stuff will be fully configured (if not truly range ready) on 10/1.

 

[sywl95]

I assume putting an thin-bar upper on a H-bar lower after 10/1 will be like putting a SBR upper on a regular lower right now.

 

[Boom Boom]

I assume putting an thin-bar upper on a H-bar lower after 10/1 will be like putting a SBR upper on a regular lower right now.

It's a one-way ticket to state prison.

 

[abean4187]

These new laws are way too confusing. So basically, months ago, I was told that I could buy a striped lower and assembly it after 10/1 because I physically owned it before the ban. But now they are saying that I can’t assembly it despite that I owned it before 10/1. What if a part breaks in my gun after 10/1? Will that also be illegal for me to switch out barrels, triggers, buttstocks, etc?

There should be a lawsuit just on the fact that this law is impossibly for any regular citizen to understand.

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

These new laws are way too confusing. So basically, months ago, I was told that I could buy a striped lower and assembly it after 10/1 because I physically owned it before the ban. But now they are saying that I can’t assembly it despite that I owned it before 10/1. What if a part breaks in my gun after 10/1? Will that also be illegal for me to switch out barrels, triggers, buttstocks, etc?

There should be a lawsuit just on the fact that this law is impossibly for any regular citizen to understand.

QFT

 

[sywl95]

So under what circumstances in which police officer will want to run your serial number to see if it should be an H-bar or not?

Is this gonna be similar to the I-don't-have-license-so-I-should-drive-slower kind of situation?

 

[OrbitalEllipses]

These new laws are way too confusing. So basically, months ago, I was told that I could buy a striped lower and assembly it after 10/1 because I physically owned it before the ban. But now they are saying that I can’t assembly it despite that I owned it before 10/1. What if a part breaks in my gun after 10/1? Will that also be illegal for me to switch out barrels, triggers, buttstocks, etc?

There should be a lawsuit just on the fact that this law is impossibly for any regular citizen to understand.

Since when has any MD law been "easy to read" for the layperson. Just check out the gerrymandering wording last election.

 

[Gbh]

So under what circumstances in which police officer will want to run your serial number to see if it should be an H-bar or not?

Shooting at one of the State Forrest outdoor ranges could be one example. DNR police show up from time to time. I've never seen them really pay much attention to the firearms present (the slide fire stock/AR gets their interest though). After Oct 1, that may change.

 

[MDvet]

So under what circumstances in which police officer will want to run your serial number to see if it should be an H-bar or not?

Is this gonna be similar to the I-don't-have-license-so-I-should-drive-slower kind of situation?

How would the police run the serial number? More like making bunch of telephone calls.

 

[Multifaceted]

Ridiculous, utterly asinine. So I suppose if we don't assemble our rifles atop our stripped lowers before 10/1 we will basically have paperweights...

I need a drink...

 

[necrodude]

I really hope this isn't true but if it really is what are they gona stop shipping of uppers and parts into maryland. I can see lots of people still building there lowers out after Oct 1st even if it is illegal.