HB1302-"The Neighborhood Bag Lady Can Take Your Guns" bill

[Jim12]

The media is also reporting that Cruz is being swamped in jail with mail from female admirers. That shouldn't have been publicized, if it's even true. Who is privy to that, and whose brilliant idea was it to make it public? What else are they reporting about him?

 

[Jim12]

I heard something similar from one of the delegates. First, I don't believe it to be true. Second, it's interesting to read that the legislators are unable to grasp the content of the laws they write, without outside parties coming to their aid and explaining the legislation to the legislators.

Sounds like complete dereliction of duty to me, but I operate under a different set of standards, apparently.

What do you think special interests and lobbyists do? They propose, draft, and push for legislation. Sometimes details and analysis are left to reps' staff. Opponents, or prospective opponents, are left out and bushwhacked if and when possible. Special interest groups sometimes are the only ones who even follow some things. Republicans are way outnumbered, out-staffed, outvoted, and outmaneuvered in Maryland. That, combined with the volume and last-minute shenanigans result in the half-a**ed bullsh*t our geniuses ultimately foist on us. Then, it takes the courts and judges to interpret what they meant in any given case.

 

[Rack&Roll]

When this HB1302 RED FLAG bill left the House of Delegates, it stipulated that "any interested person" could go to the courts or the police and--without any notification to you as a firearm owner--declare that you were a threat and have you investigated while your firearms were confiscated. You would be evaluated for mental illness. As constructed by the gun-hating delegates in the House, it was an open attack on ANY AND ALL firearms owners in MD by extremists seeking an end run around gun bans.

After days of hearings and discussions in the Senate (seven Democrats, 4 Republicans) the pushback from the various 2A orgs and Republicans on the committee, combined with outrage directed at the Judicial Proceedings Committee through emails, phone calls and Patriot Picket sign-messaging outside their offices, the bill was amended in this manner:

* The "any interested person" snitch clause (known to us as the "any Interested Democrat" snitch clause) was dropped.
* The people eligible to request threat investigations was collapsed from the entire state of Maryland to just within a household.
* Ex-spouses, who have been known settle scores by way of false charges, were dropped as eligible threat petitioners .
* The odd stipulation that "a law officer is not civilly or criminal liable" for wrongdoing while participating in this process, was dropped.
* Language about "reasonable grounds to believe" a threat is valid were dropped in favor of "clear and convincing evidence".
* Language with no specificity about receipts for confiscated firearms was changed to specify a receipt with "make, model, and serial number".
* Transport of confiscation of firearms was amended to specify that confiscated firearms would be transported in the owner's protective cases.
* Confiscation of firearms was amended to clearly state that LE may not mark or stencil firearms with property numbers.
* Confiscated firearms process was amended to clearly state the owner is to receive them 14 days after owner cleared to receive them back.
* The FFL-only surrender of firearms after becoming prohibited was amended to permit private transfer to others or non-cohabitating family members.
* Subpoenas seeking medical/mental health records specify delivery to the court under seal.

Obviously, the many lawyers on the Senate JP Committee should have voted down this bill because it still contains obvious violations of civil rights for the firearms owners in this process who are NOT mentally ill. Our firearms are CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED PROPERTY and confiscating them from their rightful owners without the benefit of Due Process is a not only a DISGRACE, it is UNLAWFUL.

As I posted earlier, Governor Hogan, who foolishly announced he would sign RED FLAG legislation before the process even started, has seen our demonstrations for weeks declaring that the RED FLAG bill is a Soviet style gun grab and guts basic Civil rights.

Then today in the Baltimore Sun, the Governor's spokespeople said this:

While Hogan endorsed the concept of red flag legislation more than a month ago, spokeswoman Amelia Chasse said he isn’t committed to signing the final bill.

“As with any amended bill we will review the final version once it reaches the governor's desk,” Chasse said. “He supports common sense policies to prevent individuals with mental illnesses or a violent criminal background from harming themselves or others with a firearm, but believes there must be strong due process protections.”

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/politics/bs-md-bump-stocks-banned-20180403-story.html

Notice he favors--as we all do--any process which removes firearms from the dangerously mentally ill or dangerous criminals, while re-stating that he favors DUE PROCESS PROTECTIONS. We need to continually bombard his office (and home) with the facts about how this proposal trespasses on our 1st, 2nd, and 4th Amendment Rights.

This CANNOT stand.

 

[Rack&Roll]

At least from my vantage point, if it wasn't for Maryland Shooters(.com ) NO ONE would have known about the dangers this bill represents and it would have sailed through both chambers and onto Hogan's desk for signature with no amendments and almost no opposition. True, we didn't catch it until after it cleared the House, but we did catch it. We'll have to try harder to read the bills for the people whose job it is to read the bills and know what they are voting for. Unreal.

Although we had dribs and drabs of info...it was Zoostation who aggregated the bill elements and posted a breakdown of genius proportions (seriously) of what a nightmare this HB1302 is.

And he did it IN THE NICK OF TIME. Thank you Zoo!

This Infringer bill was almost like a sneak attack where a fighter pilot comes straight at you from out of the Sun....devastatingly effective. During this time playing "catch-up" on this all-out attack on the MD 2A community, it has become clear that next year, we must seek out "Bill Minders"--people who will take responsibility to focus on the process of ONLY ONE BILL and update the thread as to its intent and its ramifications.

In the digital age, a Bill Minder can observe and report hearings dates, mark-ups dates, voting dates, etc and never travel to Annapolis. It is the perfect job for someone too far away from Annapolis to comfortably contribute in person there.

The Bill Minder will be the resource for folks who DO go to Naptown to testify, demonstrate, email, phone or visit the legislators in-person.

Seen an elected official address citizens tonight in a private/public forum. He blamed Maryland shooters and the NRA for not providing a heads up about 1302....

I heard something similar from one of the delegates. First, I don't believe it to be true. Second, it's interesting to read that the legislators are unable to grasp the content of the laws they write, without outside parties coming to their aid and explaining the legislation to the legislators.

Sounds like complete dereliction of duty to me, but I operate under a different set of standards, apparently.

I'm not sure it is widely understood that the legislators--but especially the Democraps--flooded the Zone with around 3,700 bills this year--up from a normal year of 2,500.

I find it astonishing that we citizens need thousands of NEW laws every year to get along. Unfortunately, the political biz attracts these control freaks, and they get off on issuing declarations to the masses.

Oviously, this legislative term--in an election year-- the legiscrappers are posturing and/or attempting to entrap the opposition with their bill submissions.

Thousands of bills never see the light of day because they are unnecessary, frivolous, stupid or loony. But the thousands that are left are a mountain of crap with no time to read them. Each bill is like a long magazine article, so imagine trying to read 1,500-2,000 of these articles in 90 days, plus attend hearings and communicate with constituents.

The process is a nightmare and designed to come at you from out of the Sun.

 

[Occam]

We are all so fortunate to have you guys doing what you do. Thank you so much.

 

[HRDWRK]

Seen an elected official address citizens tonight in a private/public forum. He blamed Maryland shooters and the NRA for not providing a heads up about 1302. He also indicated that 1302 is basically on the books now, did admit to not reading enough and that other female republican leaders from the western shore are the tip of the spear for avoiding the full gamut regarding magazine restrictions so be thankful for that. Also Hogan will come out strong once he's re-elected have no fear. AND HE WILL BE RE_ELECTED blah blah blah.
Oh, interested persons have been amended to about extended family only, ex spouse only if no child blah blah blah from his notes. Poor guy, seems like he's gathering intel to report back to see what folks know for damage control.
freaking damn shame

What "elected officials"!
I need names, an elected official is a public elected official and needs to be called out by name!

 

[HRDWRK]

I heard something similar from one of the delegates. First, I don't believe it to be true. Second, it's interesting to read that the legislators are unable to grasp the content of the laws they write, without outside parties coming to their aid and explaining the legislation to the legislators.

Sounds like complete dereliction of duty to me, but I operate under a different set of standards, apparently.

Name, Names! We need to see what fools have been elected and who in some cases continue to be elected.

 

[mcbruzdzinski]

The tip of an entire iceberg made of snowflakes. I wonder if that sort of communication could be considered a threat, and might pave the way to you asking for a restraining order or such, against her? Because that's simply her telling you she's going to persecute you for entirely legal conduct.

GET THIS ANECDOTE TO HOGAN'S OFFICE NOW

Already sent last night!

 

[mcbruzdzinski]

That sucks. Even though she's wrong...it won't be good. If this all happens, we'd need a test case to fight it, right?...but I don't want it to be you

I would prefer it not be me either!


I am so looking forward to moving out of this state. Looked at more homes in Maine, Vermont, and New Hampshire last night to calm down after the incident.

 

[East2West]

When this HB1302 RED FLAG bill left the House of Delegates, it stipulated that "any interested person" could go to the courts or the police and--without any notification to you as a firearm owner--declare that you were a threat and have you investigated while your firearms were confiscated. You would be evaluated for mental illness. As constructed by the gun-hating delegates in the House, it was an open attack on ANY AND ALL firearms owners in MD by extremists seeking an end run around gun bans.

After days of hearings and discussions in the Senate (seven Democrats, 4 Republicans) the pushback from the various 2A orgs and Republicans on the committee, combined with outrage directed at the Judicial Proceedings Committee through emails, phone calls and Patriot Picket sign-messaging outside their offices, the bill was amended in this manner:

* The "any interested person" snitch clause (known to us as the "any Interested Democrat" snitch clause) was dropped.
* The people eligible to request threat investigations was collapsed from the entire state of Maryland to just within a household.
* Ex-spouses, who have been known settle scores by way of false charges, were dropped as eligible threat petitioners .
* The odd stipulation that "a law officer is not civilly or criminal liable" for wrongdoing while participating in this process, was dropped.
* Language about "reasonable grounds to believe" a threat is valid were dropped in favor of "clear and convincing evidence".
* Language with no specificity about receipts for confiscated firearms was changed to specify a receipt with "make, model, and serial number".
* Transport of confiscation of firearms was amended to specify that confiscated firearms would be transported in the owner's protective cases.
* Confiscation of firearms was amended to clearly state that LE may not mark or stencil firearms with property numbers.
* Confiscated firearms process was amended to clearly state the owner is to receive them 14 days after owner cleared to receive them back.
* The FFL-only surrender of firearms after becoming prohibited was amended to permit private transfer to others or non-cohabitating family members.
* Subpoenas seeking medical/mental health records specify delivery to the court under seal.

Obviously, the many lawyers on the Senate JP Committee should have voted down this bill because it still contains obvious violations of civil rights for the firearms owners in this process who are NOT mentally ill. Our firearms are CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED PROPERTY and confiscating them from their rightful owners without the benefit of Due Process is a not only a DISGRACE, it is UNLAWFUL.

As I posted earlier, Governor Hogan, who foolishly announced he would sign RED FLAG legislation before the process even started, has seen our demonstrations for weeks declaring that the RED FLAG bill is a Soviet style gun grab and guts basic Civil rights.

Then today in the Baltimore Sun, the Governor's spokespeople said this:



http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/politics/bs-md-bump-stocks-banned-20180403-story.html

Notice he favors--as we all do--any process which removes firearms from the dangerously mentally ill or dangerous criminals, while re-stating that he favors DUE PROCESS PROTECTIONS. We need to continually bombard his office (and home) with the facts about how this proposal trespasses on our 1st, 2nd, and 4th Amendment Rights.

This CANNOT stand.

These changes if they show up in the final bill, for me at least will kill most of the concern with this Obamanation of a bill, short of it disappearing completely.
Thank you to all those responsible for these changes.

 

[East2West]

Seen an elected official address citizens tonight in a private/public forum. He blamed Maryland shooters and the NRA for not providing a heads up about 1302. He also indicated that 1302 is basically on the books now, did admit to not reading enough and that other female republican leaders from the western shore are the tip of the spear for avoiding the full gamut regarding magazine restrictions so be thankful for that. Also Hogan will come out strong once he's re-elected have no fear. AND HE WILL BE RE_ELECTED blah blah blah.
Oh, interested persons have been amended to about extended family only, ex spouse only if no child blah blah blah from his notes. Poor guy, seems like he's gathering intel to report back to see what folks know for damage control.
freaking damn shame

Was it Mautz? Ive seen him back tracking hardcore on Facespace since his deeds have been brought to light.

 

[Squaregrouper]

These changes if they show up in the final bill, for me at least will kill most of the concern with this Obamanation of a bill, short of it disappearing completely.
Thank you to all those responsible for these changes.

Yeah, agreed. The things you highlighted are the reason I sat in Analpolis (sic) for 8+ hours to testify for 2 minutes. I'm glad I did- "If it opened just one set of eyes..."

 

[JPG]

What happens in this scenario?

Kid at college (lives on campus during school) goes to court concerned about father (has guns in his name). However mother also owns guns in her name. Would BOTH mother and father have guns confiscated, or just the fathers? It seems like everyone in the household would be affected.

What if they rented rooms out? Would their boarders have guns confiscated?

 

[Allen65]

Yeah, agreed. The things you highlighted are the reason I sat in Analpolis (sic) for 8+ hours to testify for 2 minutes. I'm glad I did- "If it opened just one set of eyes..."

What happened in the MGA this year has been a major civics lesson for thousands of us. And the keynote lecturers for that lesson were Rack & Mr. Pennak.

You two, Norton, plus others and the communities behind you, blunted a corporate media-backed, billionaire-funded massive attack on basic civil rights and due process, let alone the 2A. And in one of the bluest of blue states, no less, against a, autocratic legislative leadership that has been entrenched for more than a quarter century.

But don't let that get to your heads - we're not at Sine Die yet. And you can bet Everytown and their smug, shrill, well-funded posse will be back next session for another bite at the apple.

Maryland citizens who believe in civil liberties owe you all a debt of gratitude.

 

[Allen65]

What happens in this scenario?

Kid at college (lives on campus during school) goes to court concerned about father (has guns in his name). However mother also owns guns in her name. Would BOTH mother and father have guns confiscated, or just the fathers? It seems like everyone in the household would be affected.

What if they rented rooms out? Would their boarders have guns confiscated?

IIRC, that's already been decided by a court and the GOV lost. If the firearms are owned and possessed by a cohabitant, spouse, or other non-named party in the seizure order, and are secured from access by the prohibited person, they can't be seized. I forget which state that case was in.

 

[Not_an_outlaw]

These changes if they show up in the final bill, for me at least will kill most of the concern with this Obamanation of a bill, short of it disappearing completely.
Thank you to all those responsible for these changes.

Except, those items can be changed back in subsequent years with little oversight. They will eventually changed back to "any interested person." They will be called drafting errors and probably won't see public review.

 

[Allen65]

Except, those items can be changed back in subsequent years with little oversight. They will eventually changed back to "any interested person." They will be called drafting errors and probably won't see public review.

Those changes would still have to go through the legislative process. I'm more worried about something similar to what MSP did with FSA2013 and the "live fire requirement", using the regulatory process to rewrite legislation.

 

[RepublicOfFranklin]

This bill was mentioned on WCBM this morning, hopefully opens some eyes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[East2West]

This bill was mentioned on WCBM this morning, hopefully opens some eyes.


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How nice of them to get on board now that the bill has made it through both houses.

 

[frogman68]

What good gun bill came out this year?

They killed the approval before training, which is common sense.

Hogan signs either of these and I will sit this election out.

The Patriots here are the only reason more bad laws weren't passed.