HB0004 Rifles and Shotguns - Secondary Transactions

[MigraineMan]

Accepting a lesser-kick-in-the-crotch is hardly my definition of "compromise." I want something tangible in exchange ...

I might consider the DIY NICS check in exchange for elimination of NFA 1934 in its entirety. Maybe.

 

[Art3]

I am so disenfranchised I cannot even submit written testimony because I can't get there to sign up. Please tell me how this is a representative government.

I get your drift about the lack of representation, but you could find a way to get your written testimony next time. Either send it (with first name, last name, and email address) on a disposible thumb drive with someone local going down there, or (even better) email it to your Delegate and ask them to (have a staffer) submit it for you. Even if they aren't on the committee, they are supposed to work for you, right?

 

[PowPow]

Accepting a lesser-kick-in-the-crotch is hardly my definition of "compromise." I want something tangible in exchange ...

I might consider the DIY NICS check in exchange for elimination of NFA 1934 in its entirety. Maybe.

Eliminating the NFA isn't enough unless we get the GCA and/or FOPA's Hughes amendment with it. Then, we can talk. lol

 

[buellsfurn]

DIY nics would mean delay after delay no maybe ?

 

[Mark75H]

No prob. If you cede them on background checks, next it will be permits to possess (like Illinois's FOID). After that, it will be social credit scores to maintain your permit. After that, it will be a mandatory buy back to keep your permit. When does it stop? When you and I are disarmed.

A journey of a thousand miles begins with one step

 

[Art3]

I second this

No prob. If you cede them on background checks, next it will be permits to possess (like Illinois's FOID). After that, it will be social credit scores to maintain your permit. After that, it will be a mandatory buy back to keep your permit. When does it stop? When you and I are disarmed.

Accepting a lesser-kick-in-the-crotch is hardly my definition of "compromise." I want something tangible in exchange ...

I might consider the DIY NICS check in exchange for elimination of NFA 1934 in its entirety. Maybe.

Noted. I'll make sure I say that it is just me who prefers DIY to LQL. In the end, we're all getting the same poop sandwich anyway.

One of the things that had been discussed offline earlier in the year was the need to push a bill that we would support, and they couldn't deny. It would throw the MDA's (and probably legiscritters) off their game if we all came in demanding some true common sense legislation that would combat "gun violence," and shame them for not agreeing with us. I was really hoping last year's HB236 would make a re-appearance. They are demanding background checks. I figured if we showed off a painless and free way to have background checks (without the registration that they want...but we could still say, "Here's background checks...that's what you wanted, right?"), in a way that probably isn't going to work anyway, maybe they'd shut up about the worst stuff. Next year, when murders invariably increased and they wanted to take more, an easy unified stance would be, "You got your background checks...we told you it wouldn't work!"

Well...I think that last part will still happen. I just don't see how they won't get their background checks, in one form or another, this year anyway.

Maybe I'm already too demoralized. Maybe there won't be a gun-hungry supermajority with a score to settle from last year when the whole assembly votes. Maybe a few dems will break party lines and do the right thing, because it's the right thing. Maybe Atterbeary will have a change of heart and say, "Ok, you guys are right. No more gun laws for a while. We'll just enforce the ones we have." Maybe some of the monkeys that fly out of my butt will have CCW without G&S...

 

[PowPow]

Maybe Atterbeary will have a change of heart and say, "Ok, you guys are right. No more gun laws for a while. We'll just enforce the ones we have."

If this happens, I'll let you use my credit card for charges over a long weekend. Then I'll call the fraud department.

 

[Art3]

If this happens, I'll let you use my credit card for charges over a long weekend. Then I'll call the fraud department.

And I'll use it to take her out for a drink

 

[Kharn]

Please, Art, just speak for yourself. It certainly does not have any such approval, tentatively or otherwise, from me.

If they're going to pass HB4, they should just pass it as is. I'm certainly not willing to offer compromise against my core belief that background checks when applied to firearms transfers are intrusive, unconstitutional, and ineffective. They are more about control than anything else. My delegate, Atterbeary, knows this. She is serving the Kool-Aid. I'm not drinking any of it.

I'm annoyed with HB4 allowing FFLs to charge whatever they want, when you can take a handgun to an MSP barracks and they must transfer it for $10. The MSP hates that duty, but they should be stuck doing the same for long guns if HB4 passes.

 

[PowPow]

And I'll use it to take her out for a drink

Great idea!!!!

 

[NewTwo]

Noted. I'll make sure I say that it is just me who prefers DIY to LQL. In the end, we're all getting the same poop sandwich anyway.

One of the things that had been discussed offline earlier in the year was the need to push a bill that we would support, and they couldn't deny. It would throw the MDA's (and probably legiscritters) off their game if we all came in demanding some true common sense legislation that would combat "gun violence," and shame them for not agreeing with us. I was really hoping last year's HB236 would make a re-appearance. They are demanding background checks. I figured if we showed off a painless and free way to have background checks (without the registration that they want...but we could still say, "Here's background checks...that's what you wanted, right?"), in a way that probably isn't going to work anyway, maybe they'd shut up about the worst stuff. Next year, when murders invariably increased and they wanted to take more, an easy unified stance would be, "You got your background checks...we told you it wouldn't work!"

Well...I think that last part will still happen. I just don't see how they won't get their background checks, in one form or another, this year anyway.

No I actually agree with you here. Not to step on any toes but the attitude of "no steps back" on gun rights isn't productive when you've already let them walk a mile. Now that we've lost most of our soft support in the MGA, I feel that we need to change our strategy or risk getting locked out entirely. Either you try and wrench what you want out of the process or you can plug your ears and act like doing the same-old will suddenly reverse the trend.

This isn't a "compromise" so much as it's making tactical maneuvers with amendments that help preserve what we have. I look at oddities like Illinois where they somehow still have 30 round magazines, or Vermont where constitutional carry is enshrined, or Delaware where they passed UBCs before us yet were able to successfully defeat AWBs and capacity limits by currying favor with Democrats despite their trifecta. These things aren't just happy accidents, they're the result of gun owners in those states making concerted efforts to adapt to their legislative environments and claim their rightful part in the process. Even if they eventually decide to come after those, anchoring ourselves with better bills goes a long way to combating the decay especially if what we established was rather agreeable to begin with.

Until the Supreme Court comes out with broader decisions, I believe that being tactical is our best way forward. This state could be alot worse about it. The fact that it isn't gives us time and leeway to actually enshrine the most important things while we bide our time for the larger moves. The fact that many delegates expressed openness to DIY checks should be seen as a great asset. It's a path that could give us alternatives to FFL transfer fees, provides safeguards against police who get nosy about your loans and creates an anchor which preserves our transfer expediency against future attempts by Dems to double down. Best of all, if it works here, it could provide a precedent for other UBC-law states to follow, giving alot of people in other states great relief.

We're not California, New York or New Jersey; no need to daydream about pie in the sky victories when there's very real ones we could be wringing out. However small they may be, they go a long way to carving out a path for our future.

 

[PowPow]

That negotiation strategy is how we got the NICS system in the first place. NICS is enshrined. What's next on the list of enshrined things that gun owners will lament over?

 

[Art3]

I'm not trying to rehash the "give them an inch, they'll take a mile" argument. I'm just as sick of being steamrolled over as everyone else, and usually am on the other side of that argument. I've also seen the steamroller enough to know it's coming for us, and two friendly delegates on the committee telling me, "this bill is going to pass, and there are worse coming" confirms it. Our inches are nothing to their mile.

We have high hopes for the courts undoing these travesties, but the courts are slow. It was suggested elsewhere that maybe it would be better for them to just pass the absolute worst of these bills, so it is easier for them to be overturned in court. That's like daring them to take 2 miles. We still have to live for the years between bill enactment and court ruling. Can we keep our guns buried for all that time without getting caught? I don't think I can. Will the people who are convicted (and therefore lose all rights and guns) in the meantime magically get all their guns back when it is overturned? What if it isn't overturned

I won't try to suggest that I speak for any gun owners other than myself, but I have one more thought: Suppose the Senate version of this bill buys into the DIY NICS? They'll have to rectify it with the House version, right? If we have capitulators like me screaming one way to the Senate, and stalwarts screaming no way to the House, maybe it will create an impasse, or at least buy some time?

I still think LQL is going to make this a moot point anyway.

 

[Doctor_M]

This is going to sound bad, and please don't take it as I've given up on the fight (I haven't), but I've come to the point of realization that they are going to do whatever they have made up their minds about... and honestly, I'm almost beyond caring. They have taken someone who has never had so much as a late library book, and have pushed me to the point of considering myself an outlaw (not a criminal mind you... I will make that distinction... just someone who no longer respects the stupid and unconstitutional laws that are being shoved down our throats). So be it... I'm an outlaw. I'll continue to live an ethical life and do what makes sense to me, and if I wind up afoul of the law, I will hire a good lawyer and roll the dice. What MGA does has become as irrelevant to me as what the parlemint of of East Timor does... I just don't care anymore.

 

[Bertfish]

This is going to sound bad, and please don't take it as I've given up on the fight (I haven't), but I've come to the point of realization that they are going to do whatever they have made up their minds about... and honestly, I'm almost beyond caring. They have taken someone who has never had so much as a late library book, and have pushed me to the point of considering myself an outlaw (not a criminal mind you... I will make that distinction... just someone who no longer respects the stupid and unconstitutional laws that are being shoved down our throats). So be it... I'm an outlaw. I'll continue to live an ethical life and do what makes sense to me, and if I wind up afoul of the law, I will hire a good lawyer and roll the dice. What MGA does has become as irrelevant to me as what the parlemint of of East Timor does... I just don't care anymore.

I too have reached that point. I'm not sticking up gas stations, I'm not a criminal just because they decide to change the rules and make me one. So I will do as I choose to do and obtain what I want to in order to further my hobby.

 

[Mark75H]

... if we all came in demanding some true common sense legislation that would combat "gun violence," and shame them for not agreeing with us.

They have no shame; stunned you haven't realized this yet.

amendments that help preserve what we have. I look at oddities like Illinois where they somehow still have 30 round magazines, or Vermont where constitutional carry is enshrined, or Delaware where they passed UBCs before us yet were able to successfully defeat AWBs and capacity limits by currying favor with Democrats despite their trifecta.

Oh, yeah, Delaware where everything NFA is prohibited, so much better than MD /sarcasm. Watch for passage of just about everything the Virginia Democrats want over in DE this year. Delaware 2A is dieing a death of 1,000 cuts.

 

[MigraineMan]

WTOP has posted coverage from HB4 on Wednesday. Unlike the Capitol Gazette, they didn't lead-off with Andrea Chamblee (though they do seem to climb up on McNamara's corpse with her.)

Atterbeary's statement that “There’s an exception for any kind of temporary transfer, regardless of the circumstances,” is patently false, but otherwise the article is fairly balanced.

 

[whistlersmother]

This is going to sound bad, and please don't take it as I've given up on the fight (I haven't), but I've come to the point of realization that they are going to do whatever they have made up their minds about... and honestly, I'm almost beyond caring. They have taken someone who has never had so much as a late library book, and have pushed me to the point of considering myself an outlaw (not a criminal mind you... I will make that distinction... just someone who no longer respects the stupid and unconstitutional laws that are being shoved down our throats). So be it... I'm an outlaw. I'll continue to live an ethical life and do what makes sense to me, and if I wind up afoul of the law, I will hire a good lawyer and roll the dice. What MGA does has become as irrelevant to me as what the parlemint of of East Timor does... I just don't care anymore.

I too have reached that point. I'm not sticking up gas stations, I'm not a criminal just because they decide to change the rules and make me one. So I will do as I choose to do and obtain what I want to in order to further my hobby.

When one decides not to comply, then the angst (or dread) of the MGA actions goes away.

I also have no f*'s to give as to Maryland gun laws and the MGA's infringements this year in particular.

I think there are (and have been) lots of otherwise law-abiding people who came to this same conclusion.

 

[teratos]

This is going to sound bad, and please don't take it as I've given up on the fight (I haven't), but I've come to the point of realization that they are going to do whatever they have made up their minds about... and honestly, I'm almost beyond caring. They have taken someone who has never had so much as a late library book, and have pushed me to the point of considering myself an outlaw (not a criminal mind you... I will make that distinction... just someone who no longer respects the stupid and unconstitutional laws that are being shoved down our throats). So be it... I'm an outlaw. I'll continue to live an ethical life and do what makes sense to me, and if I wind up afoul of the law, I will hire a good lawyer and roll the dice. What MGA does has become as irrelevant to me as what the parlemint of of East Timor does... I just don't care anymore.

I have embraced two things. The first is that the MD Democrats are beyond even pretending to care what other people think. They will do as they please. The days of “nobody wants to take your guns” are gone. The second is that I feel like they do. I am beyond caring about complying with their laws.

 

[Doctor_M]

Sounds like I'm in good company.

Keep your powder dry, my friends.