Handgun selection help

[Nay_sayer]

I'm torn between a few different hand guns. I can only afford one before doomsday (10/1) and need some advice from anybody who owns one of these.

My three choices:

Sig SP2022 in .40. It's a Tac Pack kit.
SA XD-M in .45. It's SA's equivalent of the Tac Pack kit.
S&W M&P .40. Just the HG, 2 mags, lock, and a case.

I have shot all of them before and they all feel about the same comfort-wise. The prices are within $150 of each other. They are all in stock for 8th day release at my chosen gun shop but I can't decide on which to buy.

I've looked up every review I can find on all of them and looked through MDS. Anybody have any advice on any of them (good or bad)?

 

[smokey]

m&p. The 2022 has a mile high bore axis and is super flippy. The 2022 is also a da/sa, so you've got to learn both the heavy/long double action trigger AND the short/light single-action trigger to be proficient with that gun. It's also harder to find holsters and other stuff for. You could always just get an xdm40...16 shots of 40 is mo-betta than 13 of 45. or xdm9 for 19+1..... again though, the xd's have a pretty high bore axis and are more flippy than the m&p.

The m&p will have a ton of aftermarket things for whatever you want. It's got the least amount of muzzle flip of the three and doesn't have that goofy grip safety of the xd. I personally find it to be the most ergonomic, with a well-thought out backstrap system. The xd's backstraps really just add length at the bottom of the grip and don't do as good of a job increasing or decreasing length of pull as the m&p.

The one thing I'd advise is if you get the m&p, order the apex DCAEK & RAM. They transform the trigger from underwhelming to incredible. You could also send it off for a burwell job for less money, or try to do it yourself if you're handy.

 

[ktigerJ]

I have the M&P 40 and one of the other things I like about it is the ability to drop the 9mm barrel into it. The three grips fit any size hand. Takedown is really simple also. I have the storm lake 9mm barrel since I couldn't find the S&W one in stock. Midway has the 9mm 17rd and .40 mags in stock, along with the 9mm barrel.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

 

[Name Taken]

Own 2340 and MP40.

The 2340 is blah. High bore axis, low mag capacity, small holster offerings, and does nothing a 229 doesn't do better.

I favor the MP's personally.

 

[hvymax]

The DA/SA trigger is only an issue if you shot your thumb off. You should have a crappy trigger pull for all shots? That said The CZ75/EAA Witness etc. The Beretta 92etc is decent as well.

 

[Nay_sayer]

Thanks Smokey.

My original thought was the M&P .40 but they didn't have one in stock. I wanted a .45 eventually anyway and they did have that in stock.

I have heard that the trigger is a PITA on the 2022 but since I'm not used to any of them I guess it didn't register. My rifle I shoot the most is set to a 2 lb trigger pull so every other trigger I try seems heavy and drawn out.

I've read about a possible firing pin issue on the M&P that has me a bit wary but I can't find much out about it. Are you aware of a firing pin/spring issue with them?

 

[m32]

Having tried both the M&P and the XD. I found the accuracy to be similar but the ergonomics on the M&P, IMHO, are much better. The XD grip safety was both annoying and eventually started to irritate my hand. Also, the XD had a few minor ammo feeding issues, the M&P did not. I have no Sig experiences. Are you committed to the .4x calibers? How about 9mm? Glock? Give 'em all a try and go with which one feels/points the best in your hand.

 

[Scottysan]

I had a 2022 and agree with all the rest of the guys here.... meh...
Also had a Sig 226 with Much better results.

The real question is which do you shoot the best?

 

[Nay_sayer]

I have the M&P 40 and one of the other things I like about it is the ability to drop the 9mm barrel into it. The three grips fit any size hand. Takedown is really simple also. I have the storm lake 9mm barrel since I couldn't find the S&W one in stock. Midway has the 9mm 17rd and .40 mags in stock, along with the 9mm barrel.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

Thanks!
Other than cost of ammo, what is the reason for having two calibers? I guess I could see the benefit in TEOTWAWKI when you want to be able to shoot whatever ammo you can find. Maybe I just answered my own question.

Own 2340 and MP40.

The 2340 is blah. High bore axis, low mag capacity, small holster offerings, and does nothing a 229 doesn't do better.

I favor the MP's personally.

So true. I would much rather have the 229 but can't afford it right now. That would be an easy choice.

Looks like the M&P is a big favorite here.

The DA/SA trigger is only an issue if you shot your thumb off. You should have a crappy trigger pull for all shots? That said The CZ75/EAA Witness etc. The Beretta 92etc is decent as well.

Not sure what you mean about the DA/SA and no thumb (you mean to use the decocker?)? Or the crappy trigger pull for all shots?

I've never shot a CZ75 but I see that they seem to be well liked and pretty popular. I'll see if they have one at the gun shop. I don't mind the Beretta 92 but it's not one of my favs.

 

[smokey]

Thanks Smokey.

My original thought was the M&P .40 but they didn't have one in stock. I wanted a .45 eventually anyway and they did have that in stock.

I have heard that the trigger is a PITA on the 2022 but since I'm not used to any of them I guess it didn't register. My rifle I shoot the most is set to a 2 lb trigger pull so every other trigger I try seems heavy and drawn out.

I've read about a possible firing pin issue on the M&P that has me a bit wary but I can't find much out about it. Are you aware of a firing pin/spring issue with them?

I haven't really heard much on firing pin issues. Way back in early production, 9mm m&p's had some accuracy issues due to timing during unlocking. S&W redesigned the barrel a bit back by the hood and now they've got superb accuracy. The older sears on the m&p were also kind've square shaped and caused the trigger to suck a bit more than it should have. After apex came out with their improved sear, s&w modified the sear design a bit to make the contact area with the trigger bar more teardrop shaped and now the stock triggers are better...although I'd still go apex or burwell. One other issue they had a while back was the slide cracking where the slide stop engaged with it. Any metallurgist could take a quick look and realize a sharp right angle in the slide stop cutout was bad ju-ju...they made the cutout more trapezoidal in shape and that problem went away. The current m&p's are excellent guns, capable of impressive accuracy and rock solid reliability.

As far as triggers go, there's going to be a difference in rifle triggers and defensive pistol triggers. When under stress and running around, you probably don't want a trigger under about 4# in a handgun(the exception being if you regularly shoot competition and have excellent trigger discipline). The xdm and m&p are both going to run around 5lbs(like a glock). I'm going to go off to use the search feature to try to find a post I did a while back on the apex kit to better explain what it gives you. The sparks notes version is less overtravel, a shorter reset, smoother press to the rear(hemispherical striker block removes initial grit and stacking you feel with the stock trigger), and the RAM gives you an audible and tactile reset that is missing on the factory trigger.

here's a post explaining the apex kit fo'ya.
http://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=1746871&postcount=23

here's a picture of m&p sears and how they are different depending on older to newer, pro-series, or apex

 

[Nay_sayer]

Having tried both the M&P and the XD. I found the accuracy to be similar but the ergonomics on the M&P, IMHO, are much better. The XD grip safety was both annoying and eventually started to irritate my hand. Also, the XD had a few minor ammo feeding issues, the M&P did not. I have no Sig experiences. Are you committed to the .4x calibers? How about 9mm? Glock? Give 'em all a try and go with which one feels/points the best in your hand.

I wasn't impressed with the safety grip thingy on the XD but didn't shoot it enough to bother my hand. I can see how that would be annoying.

I know this will probably get me kicked off of here but I have never found a Glock that I liked to shoot. I've shot the 17, 19, 22, 23, and 26 and did not like the way any of them felt. Seemed top heavy (top-heavier I guess would be more accurate) and the grip was never comfortable. I know they are well made, reliable, and LOTS of people love them.

I also wanted something bigger than a 9mm. They seem like pea shooters every time I shoot them.

 

[Nay_sayer]

I had a 2022 and agree with all the rest of the guys here.... meh...
Also had a Sig 226 with Much better results.

The real question is which do you shoot the best?

Figures. The Sig seems to be the least fav. I wanted that one to have glowing reports. I guess there is a reason why it's half the price of other Sigs.

I was just testing them when I shot them and didn't have time for any real accuracy shooting or grouping tests (and I'm not an avid or excellent pistol shooter either). I could hit the center (approx. 3" x 5" "oval" on the silhouette target) on the target at 25 YDS with the full magazine from each of them.

 

[smokey]

I wasn't impressed with the safety grip thingy on the XD but didn't shoot it enough to bother my hand. I can see how that would be annoying.

I know this will probably get me kicked off of here but I have never found a Glock that I liked to shoot. I've shot the 17, 19, 22, 23, and 26 and did not like the way any of them felt. Seemed top heavy (top-heavier I guess would be more accurate) and the grip was never comfortable. I know they are well made, reliable, and LOTS of people love them.

I also wanted something bigger than a 9mm. They seem like pea shooters every time I shoot them.

there are some big advantages to 9 over 40 and 45. They DO seem like pea shooters....which is a good thing. They don't have much recoil, so you can usually dump a good number of shots on target pretty quickly. They're also small, so you can cram a lot of them in a magazine...for instance 17 in a m&p mag vs. 15 of the .40. As terminal ballistics go, there's not really a bunch of difference between a good 9mm, 40, or 45 load. The .45 can have some advantages in terms of momentum(causing less deflection), and expansion(ranget t's and hst's getting up past the 1" mark while still penetrating 12"), but it's got relatively stout recoil and pretty low capacity at 10 in the m&p instead of 17. 9mm is also much cheaper to shoot than 40 or 45 which get more expensive as you move up in size. That cheapness transfers to more trigger time for a given amount of ammo money.

.45 is fun though, and I enjoy shooting my .45 more than my other handguns. I like the way it pushes hard, but isn't really snappy. I can empty my m&p45 pretty fast due to lack of the snap that is actually pretty pronounced in the .40. Getting an m&p40 and a factory s&w 9mm barrel does seem like a cool thing though, being able to shoot both. There are some minor changes in the ejector and breech face moving from 9 to 40 though, so the 9mm may not be as reliable in the 40 upper as it would be in a dedicated 9 upper. It's good for range use though and many people have no reliability problems whatsoever.

 

[Nay_sayer]

there are some big advantages to 9 over 40 and 45. They DO seem like pea shooters....which is a good thing. They don't have much recoil, so you can usually dump a good number of shots on target pretty quickly. They're also small, so you can cram a lot of them in a magazine...for instance 17 in a m&p mag vs. 15 of the .40. As terminal ballistics go, there's not really a bunch of difference between a good 9mm, 40, or 45 load. The .45 can have some advantages in terms of momentum(causing less deflection), and expansion(ranget t's and hst's getting up past the 1" mark while still penetrating 12"), but it's got relatively stout recoil and pretty low capacity at 10 in the m&p instead of 17. 9mm is also much cheaper to shoot than 40 or 45 which get more expensive as you move up in size. That cheapness transfers to more trigger time for a given amount of ammo money.

.45 is fun though, and I enjoy shooting my .45 more than my other handguns. I like the way it pushes hard, but isn't really snappy. I can empty my m&p45 pretty fast due to lack of the snap that is actually pretty pronounced in the .40. Getting an m&p40 and a factory s&w 9mm barrel does seem like a cool thing though, being able to shoot both. There are some minor changes in the ejector and breech face moving from 9 to 40 though, so the 9mm may not be as reliable in the 40 upper as it would be in a dedicated 9 upper. It's good for range use though and many people have no reliability problems whatsoever.

That all makes sense. The .45 is fun, but cost of ammo is a consideration and I ALWAYS want/need more trigger time. I don't have any personal need for 1" of expansion and 12" of penetration but I guess that need may arise one day (can't wait for the yuks on that one).

If I get the .40 cal, it looks like I can do the Apex "action enhancement kit", put an Apex billet trigger on, and buy the 9mm barrel and two 17 rd mags for +/- $250-$275.

****I found an old archive from 2011 on "another gun forum" about the firing pins breaking on the M&P's. Seems like it was related to dry firing on the early M&P's and it was fixed by S&W on the newer ones.****

 

[smokey]

...terminal ballistics for some good loads in 9 40 and 45...

 

[Overboost44]

There is a Sig P250 .45 in the classifieds for $500 and a P229 SAS for $900. I guess that is a little more than what you are looking at though. I have a P229 Equinox and love it. The P250 ad is hard to find, so here it is http://www.mdshooters.com/vbclassified.php?do=ad&id=16936

 

[m32]

I know this will probably get me kicked off of here but I have never found a Glock that I liked to shoot. I've shot the 17, 19, 22, 23, and 26 and did not like the way any of them felt.)/QUOTE]

Not defending/promoting Glock, that said, I felt the same way first time I held one and bought the M&P. When the time came to purchase another handgun, I decided to look at Glock again. So many people like them, I figured there must be something to it. This time around it felt/pointed much better in my hand. Not better than my M&P just different. I do prefer the stock Glock trigger to the stock M&P. Anyhow, short version, I am happy with them both. Something to think about.

 

[J.T]

Xdm

 

[Jimbob2.0]

The high bore is a disadvantage on paper, but really it depends on the shooter. I hated my 2022 9mm at first, even tried to sell it as it jammed on the first couple mags. However, 500+ rounds later 100% and accurate as hell. Its really the best value gun out there.

I recently snagged a .40 version of GB with night sights NIB for $330, couldnt resist at that price. They only come with one mag and paper box but at that price you cant complain (mags for these are about $30 each). If you can do that you may want to skip the "tac pac". I would have bought another in .357 Sig if it wasnt for this 10/1 BS.

I would watch GB for Ossage County Guns, I hate some of their policies but they list a lot of Sig's dirt cheap. You have to be careful in your bidding strategy as they will list about a dozen of the same gun and some go high, some go low. I ended up with a Sig 226 classic .22 for around $400 playing the same strategy.

One final note, most Sig's off GB dont come with fired casings so be careful and make sure you use an FFL who can shoot one off for you. A1 is awesome and doesnt charge for fired casings (most who do it charge about $35). Love those guys.

m&p. The 2022 has a mile high bore axis and is super flippy. The 2022 is also a da/sa, so you've got to learn both the heavy/long double action trigger AND the short/light single-action trigger to be proficient with that gun. It's also harder to find holsters and other stuff for. You could always just get an xdm40...16 shots of 40 is mo-betta than 13 of 45. or xdm9 for 19+1..... again though, the xd's have a pretty high bore axis and are more flippy than the m&p.

The m&p will have a ton of aftermarket things for whatever you want. It's got the least amount of muzzle flip of the three and doesn't have that goofy grip safety of the xd. I personally find it to be the most ergonomic, with a well-thought out backstrap system. The xd's backstraps really just add length at the bottom of the grip and don't do as good of a job increasing or decreasing length of pull as the m&p.

The one thing I'd advise is if you get the m&p, order the apex DCAEK & RAM. They transform the trigger from underwhelming to incredible. You could also send it off for a burwell job for less money, or try to do it yourself if you're handy.

 

[freddie]

I know this will probably get me kicked off of here but I have never found a Glock that I liked to shoot. I've shot the 17, 19, 22, 23, and 26 and did not like the way any of them felt.)/QUOTE]

Not defending/promoting Glock, that said, I felt the same way first time I held one and bought the M&P. When the time came to purchase another handgun, I decided to look at Glock again. So many people like them, I figured there must be something to it. This time around it felt/pointed much better in my hand. Not better than my M&P just different. I do prefer the stock Glock trigger to the stock M&P. Anyhow, short version, I am happy with them both. Something to think about.

Very similar to myself: gave Glock a third try and it is now my favorite for HD - Gen 4 did it for me.