Handgun drills

[Ponder_MD]

I wasn't sure where to put this. There doesn't seem to be a section for "Personal Defensive Shooting."

At my club, we are not allowed to draw from holsters on our plinking range for safety reasons. (the club doesn't want inexperienced people sweeping their neighbors on the firing line)
I'm practicing quick sight acquisition by performing a "push drill" where I simply hold the handgun at a close ready and then push out, obtain my sight as quickly as possible and shoot the target.
No optics, just white, 3-dot sights. I'm using the isosceles stance.

The target is 9-10 yards away. I'm consistently shooting the bottom of the A zone or the top of the C zone. I am mostly centered left/right.
Any advice on consistently and quickly "getting it up" into the center of the A zone? Is there a common mistake that I'm making?

 

[308Scout]

I wasn't sure where to put this. There doesn't seem to be a section for "Personal Defensive Shooting."

"Training and Safety" forum?

 

[Ponder_MD]

"Training and Safety" forum?

How much hate will I get for cross posting this over there?

 

[308Scout]

How much hate will I get for cross posting this over there?

Not sure it makes a difference. Not sure why there'd be any hate. This seems to solidly be in the domain of training.

On your issue, do you know if you're "pushing forward"/dropping the muzzle when firing. Have someone else put a snap cap or two somewhere in a mag the next time that you shoot (and not tell you which round it is). If you're pushing the gun, it should be evident if you are "pushing forward" on a dummy round.

 

[John from MD]

I wasn't sure where to put this. There doesn't seem to be a section for "Personal Defensive Shooting."

At my club, we are not allowed to draw from holsters on our plinking range for safety reasons. (the club doesn't want inexperienced people sweeping their neighbors on the firing line)
I'm practicing quick sight acquisition by performing a "push drill" where I simply hold the handgun at a close ready and then push out, obtain my sight as quickly as possible and shoot the target.
No optics, just white, 3-dot sights. I'm using the isosceles stance.

The target is 9-10 yards away. I'm consistently shooting the bottom of the A zone or the top of the C zone. I am mostly centered left/right.
Any advice on consistently and quickly "getting it up" into the center of the A zone? Is there a common mistake that I'm making?

Why don't you practice from a low ready? At that distance, you only need to concentrate on the front sight.

 

[Sunrise]

Not sure it makes a difference. Not sure why there'd be any hate. This seems to solidly be in the domain of training.

On your issue, do you know if you're "pushing forward"/dropping the muzzle when firing. Have someone else put a snap cap or two somewhere in a mag the next time that you shoot (and not tell you which round it is). If you're pushing the gun, it should be evident if you are "pushing forward" on a dummy round.

+1 on this.

"Ball and Dummy" drill for the win.

 

[Defense Initiative]

I wasn't sure where to put this. There doesn't seem to be a section for "Personal Defensive Shooting."

At my club, we are not allowed to draw from holsters on our plinking range for safety reasons. (the club doesn't want inexperienced people sweeping their neighbors on the firing line)
I'm practicing quick sight acquisition by performing a "push drill" where I simply hold the handgun at a close ready and then push out, obtain my sight as quickly as possible and shoot the target.
No optics, just white, 3-dot sights. I'm using the isosceles stance.

The target is 9-10 yards away. I'm consistently shooting the bottom of the A zone or the top of the C zone. I am mostly centered left/right.
Any advice on consistently and quickly "getting it up" into the center of the A zone? Is there a common mistake that I'm making?

Is this a full size ATC-200 target?

 

[Ponder_MD]

Is this a full size ATC-200 target?

Yes.

 

[Ponder_MD]

Not sure it makes a difference. Not sure why there'd be any hate. This seems to solidly be in the domain of training.

On your issue, do you know if you're "pushing forward"/dropping the muzzle when firing. Have someone else put a snap cap or two somewhere in a mag the next time that you shoot (and not tell you which round it is). If you're pushing the gun, it should be evident if you are "pushing forward" on a dummy round.

That's interesting. I'll give it a try.

 

[Ponder_MD]

Why don't you practice from a low ready? At that distance, you only need to concentrate on the front sight.

John, I may be using imprecise language here. I am doing the top 3 frames in this image:

 

[Blackstar65]

it could be several things. It may likely be the gun dipping as you put on the brakes to stop the forward momentum. I would start here. From High or low ready, present the pistol at full speed to 80% of your presentation. With 20% of your full presentation left to complete slow the movement down and let the pistol coast in until you are at full presentation let the sights settle. You can modulate this method. I got the teaching point from Scott Jedlinski. He teaches it as the 80/20, 90/10, and 95/5 presentation.

 

[Ponder_MD]

it could be several things. It may likely be the gun dipping as you put on the brakes to stop the forward momentum.

That's not crazy. I am punching out at full speed, the whole way.

 

[Defense Initiative]

Yes.

You are pushing out with each shot and firing as soon as you get the proper sight picture. You might be flinching or anticipating the shot which will drop the muzzle. Give yourself a little more time, slow fire, and once your groups are better, then work on speed.

Starting out, I would add a two inch red dot to the target as an aiming point.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

I wasn't sure where to put this. There doesn't seem to be a section for "Personal Defensive Shooting."

At my club, we are not allowed to draw from holsters on our plinking range for safety reasons. (the club doesn't want inexperienced people sweeping their neighbors on the firing line)
I'm practicing quick sight acquisition by performing a "push drill" where I simply hold the handgun at a close ready and then push out, obtain my sight as quickly as possible and shoot the target.
No optics, just white, 3-dot sights. I'm using the isosceles stance.

The target is 9-10 yards away. I'm consistently shooting the bottom of the A zone or the top of the C zone. I am mostly centered left/right.
Any advice on consistently and quickly "getting it up" into the center of the A zone? Is there a common mistake that I'm making?

Ponder, This is exactly how a certain well trained member in here was teaching me to establish my technique. Draw, point, fire, regain after recoil, re-fire, regain, re-fire till mag empty.

I felt like his instruction was top notch, and for my first ever use of my new G23C, or any Glock for that matter, I felt like my results were very confidence inspiring for my virgin run through of the new gun and new technique.

Pics of your holes in targets would help. Also, we would have to get a pic or 2 of your grip/hold, how your arms are, etc. I totally learned a lot about the grip and how to turn my support arm slightly to counteract recoil and to aid in return to ready to fire. A good teacher would be able to critique you in person or if you could post video of your routine.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

Ponder_MD

What gun(s) will you be using?

In my session, I originally brought some silhouette targets but also did my " lesson" shoots on just plain white paper maybe the size of a 16 inch pizza box. Just to get on paper with the push to acquire target, fire, repeat, repeat, repeat etc, no aim, muscle memory type results.

I look forward to having another practice session to imprint the experience ASAP.
I like several of the words of advice the others have posted as I was slowly typing my message above.

 

[Bob A]

Rex Applegate's book on point shooting (Bullseyes Don't Shoot Back) mentions this phenomenon.

"[M]ost of the missed shots that occur in actual gunfights can be attributed to the shooter shoving the gun forward from this position. Shoving the gun forward tto fire it will invariably result in low hits because the muzzle will dip when the arm reaches full extension."

He states that the angle between the grip and barrel determines the amount of dip; the more it approaches 90 degrees, the more it will dip. He goes on to say that raising the gun from low ready to the line of sight is the key to effective point shooting.

Amazon.com : bullseyes don't shoot back

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

I also saw some good videos from this couple.

Here is one that is not exactly presenting your technique, but I do think a lot can be said about their practice at close range.

One thing that stood out for me was when he demo's " stringing shots left or right" as he explains trigger control at 11:00- 15:35+ Watch what happens on the first mag with dummy rounds.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

Rex Applegate's book on point shooting (Bullseyes Don't Shoot Back) mentions this phenomenon.

"[M]ost of the missed shots that occur in actual gunfights can be attributed to the shooter shoving the gun forward from this position. Shoving the gun forward tto fire it will invariably result in low hits because the muzzle will dip when the arm reaches full extension."

He states that the angle between the grip and barrel determines the amount of dip; the more it approaches 90 degrees, the more it will dip. He goes on to say that raising the gun from low ready to the line of sight is the key to effective point shooting.

Amazon.com : bullseyes don't shoot back

Thanks for posting this info, Bob A

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

Ponder_MD

I also was shown most of what is presented in this video by my instructor.
This guy is a Very good refresher for what I learned.

 

[5cary]

Good info here.

I would also add the suggestion that you practice *off* the range as well.

Whether it's just dry fire, dry fire with a laser cartridge, or an airsoft pistol; repetition without ammo can be immensely helpful.

I feel like you are training correctly, just need more *correct* reps.