Grandfathering for Bump Stocks or Binary Triggers

[RobSky]

I have just joined.

Same here, re - upped

 

[esqappellate]

This is what hogan and the mga wanted. It’s what was signed into law.

Now that the atf isn’t taking any more “applications “ we have till 10/1/18, this year, to play with our toys then either destroy them or turn them in or be felons.

Sure, someone can be a test case and then lawyer up then sue.

I don’t want to be the test case in md, that’s for sure

So we have to decide, do what the law says, or become felons or take your toys outta md

This is how I see it. I would like to be wrong and if I am someone let me know

This is not legal advice, but *if* I had one of these devices, one other possible alternative might be to store it out of state (where possession is legal) and leave it there until my legal challenge has been resolved. Assuming of course that there is going to be a legal challenge, which has not yet happened.......

 

[esqappellate]

Same here, re - upped

Thank you both. Please maintain that membership.....

 

[swinokur]

This is not legal advice, but *if* I had one of these devices, one other possible alternative might be to store it out of state (where possession is legal) and leave it there until my legal challenge has been resolved. Assuming of course that there is going to be a legal challenge, which has not yet happened.......

what does this mean?

 

[WeaponsCollector]

They banned possession of bump stocks in Massachusetts, exactly 3 people turned theirs in.
They banned possession of bump stocks in New Jersey, exactly 0 people turned them in.
They can take their bump stock bans and shove them up their asses.
There is no duty to obey or enforce unconstitutional infringements!

"Under New Jersey’s new bump stock ban, which was approved in January, residents were supposed to destroy or turn in their bump stocks by mid-April.
So far, New Jersey State Police say, they have not received a single one...."

States ban bump stocks. How do they enforce the law?
https://pilotonline.com/news/government/nation/article_702f3cc1-0fba-53d3-9473-91f735e055ed.html

"State Police said they received three bump stocks and one trigger crank, as Massachusetts now becomes the first state in the country to make the devices illegal."

Only A Few Bump Stocks Turned In To Police Despite Massachusetts Ban
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2018/02/02/bump-stock-massachusetts-ban/

 

[biermkr]

This is the plan, for both suggestions

 

[esqappellate]

what does this mean?

Stay tuned.

 

[DC-W]

Very grateful for the new and current MSI membership for your support.
Thank you all.

 

[swinokur]

Ok


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Doctor_M]

If anyone here has no other options as October rolls in, and they want to make arrangements for temporary out-of-state storage of their accessories (accessories only... I don't want the liability or responsibility of storing anyone's else's firearms), you can PM me. We can work something out where you lock it up and I'll store it for you as favor over state lines. Now if in the future they are banned at a federal level, then you will need to make arrangements to take possession back from me before that goes into effect.

I would love to see ZERO of these devices turned in to the MSP.

 

[Maswasnos]

Realistically there's no way for them to even know you have a binary trigger unless you fire it in binary mode in front of a cop, right? If they're set to semi they behave like a regular trigger and there's no external difference at all.

So if we're doing noncompliance I wouldn't even have to do anything different to my rifle and I could probably still go to ranges with no issue. Or am I missing something?

It would basically be like having a car that can exceed the speed limit by 100mph, but just not doing that where anyone can see.

 

[Doctor_M]

You are for the most part correct... It will most likely be an add on charge if anything, but there is always that concern that if you (God forbid) have a house fire or a break in or something that causes the authorities to enter your home and the police discover one in your possession, that could be a big ol' sack of headaches.

 

[Muleskinner]

Realistically there's no way for them to even know you have a binary trigger unless you fire it in binary mode in front of a cop, right? If they're set to semi they behave like a regular trigger and there's no external difference at all.

So if we're doing noncompliance I wouldn't even have to do anything different to my rifle and I could probably still go to ranges with no issue. Or am I missing something?

It would basically be like having a car that can exceed the speed limit by 100mph, but just not doing that where anyone can see.

They don't know who owns bump stocks either so people planning on storing them out of state is a bit overkill..If you're so inclined take it off your rifle and store it in your safe..No one is going to know you have it...If a SHTF moment ever comes around you can re attach it in a matter of minutes. The entire reason we are where we are is because gun owners continue to comply with these contrived and illegal "laws"...and they will continue to eat away at our rights unless we take a stand..

 

[44man]

This is not legal advice, but *if* I had one of these devices, one other possible alternative might be to store it out of state (where possession is legal) and leave it there until my legal challenge has been resolved. Assuming of course that there is going to be a legal challenge, which has not yet happened.......

Yes, I store a bunch of stuff in a safe outta state ever since fsa2013 but I have been ripped a new one by some folks for suggesting that so I usually don’t anymore

But I surely won’t be destroying of turning in anything, that’s for damn sure

 

[Hawkeye]

what does this mean?

It means that any legal challenge that might be going to be filed (*ahem* by MSI *ahem*) would certainly take a while to be totally resolved, and until then you wouldn't be able to legally possess these in MD. You know the dance - lawsuit is filed, loser appeals, appeal is heard, somebody appeals the appeal, and sooner or later either one side caves or it ends up at the Supreme Court, the entire process taking years to finish up.

 

[Hawkeye]

Also I just realized that I'd apparently let my MSI membership lapse, so I just re-upped for this year.

 

[swinokur]

I was trying to ascertain if a lawsuit is actually in the works. I know the steps of the 2A two step the cours use. This is just different moves

 

[erwos]

But, they can tell you that they are "not disapproved" per Federal law, which they have already done with the earlier decision memos clarifying their positions on binary triggers and bump stocks.

The key thing is that they're classifying DEVICES in those cases, not individual ownership. The BATFE is not stupid, they are not responding to the MD letters at this point. The only way you could even conceivably force the issue is to apply for an SBR stamp with "HAS A BUMPSTOCK" in the notes, and I suspect they'd bounce it back anyways (albeit this would be a fun experiment).

I agree that you could probably argue to a judge that, hey, you asked for authorization, so you're good in October 2018. Where you're going to get nailed is when you have no authorization come October 2019. So this parlor trick where you extend out your ownership for a year... well, it's not impressive to me. You'd have to be all sorts of crazy to take it to the range in MD, because I'm sure the MSP direction would be "no one is allowed to own bumpstocks now".

Also unsure this is the fight I would want MSI et al to spend their money, but that's their choice.

 

[ironpony]

The key thing is that they're classifying DEVICES in those cases, not individual ownership. The BATFE is not stupid, they are not responding to the MD letters at this point. The only way you could even conceivably force the issue is to apply for an SBR stamp with "HAS A BUMPSTOCK" in the notes, and I suspect they'd bounce it back anyways (albeit this would be a fun experiment).

I agree that you could probably argue to a judge that, hey, you asked for authorization, so you're good in October 2018. Where you're going to get nailed is when you have no authorization come October 2019. So this parlor trick where you extend out your ownership for a year... well, it's not impressive to me. You'd have to be all sorts of crazy to take it to the range in MD, because I'm sure the MSP direction would be "no one is allowed to own bumpstocks now".

Also unsure this is the fight I would want MSI et al to spend their money, but that's their choice.

Any thoughts on an advisory letter to atf on a current stamped SBR maybe changing length or model number and add bump stock in the notes somewhere.




Thanks to MSI



No gimmicks needed if adept at holding a rifle and not sure what to do with my finger come oct. 1 now.

 

[erwos]

Any thoughts on an advisory letter to atf on a current stamped SBR maybe changing length or model number and add bump stock in the notes somewhere.

Maybe? Anyone got a response to one of those advisory letters they want to share? It feels less concrete than the application to make or transfer. Speaking of which, form 4 does seem like it would be a more solid way of trying this approach, but would require cooperation from an FLGS.