Getting involved with USPSA Rifle and PCC matches

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  • boss281

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 14, 2012
    1,578
    Carroll County
    I am trying to sort out the dynamic (moving) side of rifle competitions by organization, regional support (Maryland area), supportive clubs, and local matches. In my youth, I shot static rifle competitively with training from my father (Sergeant Major in the Army) but other than the Navy received no other exposure other than shooting on private property intermittently over time.

    I own rifles in 5.56 and 9mm (don’t have a side arm and haven’t shot one in decades). Use iron sights, own two red dots and two magnifying sights. I like both calibers although they serve two different purposes. Since retiring recently I’ve started shooting regularly at the AGC, trying to identify and minimize all the old habits that I’ve accumulated over the years. I suppose I’m making progress although my eyesight with iron sight usage is shit (I turn 60 this year). Still working that problem, and many thanks to MDS members with their ideas.

    Of late I’ve become very interested in the more dynamic rifle competitions, and the fluid movements with strong/weak side shooting behind hides at targets of various distances – it reminds me a lot of drills and activities from a previous life. I’ve watched a lot of YouTube videos but am looking for an event supporting the two rifle calibers nearby. Even though I’m getting back into this as a senior, I think with practice and coaching I have a reasonable chance to become competitive again. At least I’ll try. I’ve got a 2-day defensive rifle course coming up that should really help me begin focus on the environment again.

    There appear to be a handful of national organizations that support dynamic rifle competitions:

    NRA – There appears to be two organizations affiliated with rifle that I THINK are the same thing: the America’s Rifle Challenge, and the America’s Rifle Match (I assume the latter fall under the former). Frankly the information on this seems very limited, oddly enough.

    International Practical Shooting Confederation – I see there is a Rifle Division.

    United States Practical Shooting Association – This organization seems to fall under the IPSC as a regional entity and even appears to overlap with some of the competitions coming directly from the IPSC proper. There is both a Rifle Division, and a Pistol Caliber Carbine Division that competes with handgun participants. It’s not clear if it’s the same course, the same day, the same people, etc., on the latter

    International Defensive Pistol Association – there is a recently introduced pistol caliber carbine division that does not appear to be going over well, and seems a bit controversial.

    Based on the lack of NRA info, and the lack of acceptance in the IDPA, I think I’ll focus on the USPSA matches.

    I live near Westminster in Carroll County, and will contact the Anne Arundel Practical Shooters (I think they shoot Ft. Meade – I was born there in ’57!) and Maryland Practical Shooters Association (I think they shoot in Thurmont) to get information and find out if there are matches coming up I can watch. It’s unclear if there are other clubs that support these kind of rifle matches nearby. This should be a good start.

    That said, are there other organizations nationally, regionally, state, local that have dynamic rifle competitions? I’ve read a little on steel challenge and that seems popular – matches held in MD? What else is there?

    Thanks in advance…
     

    wabbit

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 29, 2010
    5,295
    I am trying to sort out the dynamic (moving) side of rifle competitions by organization, regional support (Maryland area), supportive clubs, and local matches. In my youth, I shot static rifle competitively with training from my father (Sergeant Major in the Army) but other than the Navy received no other exposure other than shooting on private property intermittently over time.

    I own rifles in 5.56 and 9mm (don’t have a side arm and haven’t shot one in decades). Use iron sights, own two red dots and two magnifying sights. I like both calibers although they serve two different purposes. Since retiring recently I’ve started shooting regularly at the AGC, trying to identify and minimize all the old habits that I’ve accumulated over the years. I suppose I’m making progress although my eyesight with iron sight usage is shit (I turn 60 this year). Still working that problem, and many thanks to MDS members with their ideas.

    Of late I’ve become very interested in the more dynamic rifle competitions, and the fluid movements with strong/weak side shooting behind hides at targets of various distances – it reminds me a lot of drills and activities from a previous life. I’ve watched a lot of YouTube videos but am looking for an event supporting the two rifle calibers nearby. Even though I’m getting back into this as a senior, I think with practice and coaching I have a reasonable chance to become competitive again. At least I’ll try. I’ve got a 2-day defensive rifle course coming up that should really help me begin focus on the environment again.


    International Practical Shooting Confederation – I see there is a Rifle Division.

    United States Practical Shooting Association – This organization seems to fall under the IPSC as a regional entity and even appears to overlap with some of the competitions coming directly from the IPSC proper. There is both a Rifle Division, and a Pistol Caliber Carbine Division that competes with handgun participants. It’s not clear if it’s the same course, the same day, the same people, etc., on the latter


    That said, are there other organizations nationally, regionally, state, local that have dynamic rifle competitions? I’ve read a little on steel challenge and that seems popular – matches held in MD? What else is there?

    Thanks in advance…

    The USPSA is the US sanctioning body of IPSC. There is an IPSC body in every country that is part of IPSC. Your 9mm rifle would be fine for PCC division, and they shoot the same course at the same time as the pistol shooters. There is an IPSC match in Fredericksburg next weekend and they have a few PCC shooters each month, and you'll have a chance to learn about the division and the sport if you have time to go. Download the rule book at uspsa . org and take a look at the specifics of the division. I shoot production pistol so I'm not too familiar with PCC, sorry.
     

    gwchem

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 18, 2014
    3,450
    SoMD
    No rifle calibers in uspsa. Mostly, this has to do with the steel targets used in some stages. Or at least that's how it's been explained to me.
     

    boss281

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 14, 2012
    1,578
    Carroll County
    No rifle calibers in uspsa. Mostly, this has to do with the steel targets used in some stages. Or at least that's how it's been explained to me.

    This confused me as the rules state "rifle" here https://uspsa.org/document_library/rules/2015/RifleShotgunMultigunRules.pdf

    and pistol caliber carbine here https://uspsa.org/document_library/rules/2016/PCC Appendix D8_Sep2016.pdf

    I haven't read them through yet, so both may be referring to PCCs. That said, some Youtube videos clearly show USPSA competitors using larger calibers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qcejgsw0JqM for example.
     

    jason.krywicki

    Active Member
    Sep 8, 2007
    265
    GB, MD
    I'm one of the match directors for Anne Arundel Practical Shooters. We have a match this Saturday (8/5) as our normal match weekends are the 1st Saturday of the month. We are now allowing PCC for our Level 1 matches.

    USPSA does technically allow for rifles but that is for the multigun (3 gun) events only. These events are not very popular in this area. I don't know if I've ever seen one offered. Now, there are other 3 gun events that are very popular around the area. The closest ones would be up at the York IWLA running FNH 3 gun rules, I believe.

    You're more than welcome to come down to AAFG to observe the AAPS match if you'd like. I'll be away on vacation for this match, but Matt Schwartz will be running the match. Just let him know you're down there to observe and sign a waiver and you'll be good to go.

    Jason
     

    boss281

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 14, 2012
    1,578
    Carroll County
    I'm one of the match directors for Anne Arundel Practical Shooters. We have a match this Saturday (8/5) as our normal match weekends are the 1st Saturday of the month. We are now allowing PCC for our Level 1 matches.

    USPSA does technically allow for rifles but that is for the multigun (3 gun) events only. These events are not very popular in this area. I don't know if I've ever seen one offered. Now, there are other 3 gun events that are very popular around the area. The closest ones would be up at the York IWLA running FNH 3 gun rules, I believe.

    You're more than welcome to come down to AAFG to observe the AAPS match if you'd like. I'll be away on vacation for this match, but Matt Schwartz will be running the match. Just let him know you're down there to observe and sign a waiver and you'll be good to go.

    Jason

    Thank you Jason, I will try very hard to go. I have family off Bay Dale so it's a 90 minute timed drive, so I know the area but was unaware of the range.

    Is this match permitting the PCC under IDPA? Also, I went to your web site and, my apologies, couldn't find the event you refer to above on the first Saturdays of the month. I see IDPA Action Pistol at "IDPA Action Pistol – 1st Friday & 2nd & 4th Saturdays", but couldn't find anything for 1st Saturdays each month. Regardless, I'll try to make it and connect up with Matt and ask questions after the match. Thanks for responding...
     

    davsco

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 21, 2010
    8,636
    Loudoun, VA

    yeah your link above is for multigun (ie 3 gun) where rifles (AR's) are allowed.

    check out www.peacemakernational.com for some events that allow AR's (and AK's and similar semi autos). they of course do 2 gun and 3 gun but also have some NRA-type tactical rifle matches where you run around and shoot rifles out to several hundred yards. other venues do as well.

    thurmont and frederick idpa have allowed PCC's during their idpa matches, as has thurmont (MPSA) during their uspsa matches. again other venues do also.
     

    boss281

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 14, 2012
    1,578
    Carroll County
    yeah your link above is for multigun (ie 3 gun) where rifles (AR's) are allowed.

    check out www.peacemakernational.com for some events that allow AR's (and AK's and similar semi autos). they of course do 2 gun and 3 gun but also have some NRA-type tactical rifle matches where you run around and shoot rifles out to several hundred yards. other venues do as well.

    thurmont and frederick idpa have allowed PCC's during their idpa matches, as has thurmont (MPSA) during their uspsa matches. again other venues do also.

    I emailed the IPSC and IDPA contacts at the Thurmont facility to get more info, hopefully I'll hear back soon. Thanks for the reminder on Peacemaker. I was thrown off initially as their site mentions no more memberships are available, but apparently you don't have to be a member to compete.

    EDIT: just saw the note about the Frederick support for IDPA. I'll email them as well on PCC, thank you...
     

    jason.krywicki

    Active Member
    Sep 8, 2007
    265
    GB, MD
    Thank you Jason, I will try very hard to go. I have family off Bay Dale so it's a 90 minute timed drive, so I know the area but was unaware of the range.

    Is this match permitting the PCC under IDPA? Also, I went to your web site and, my apologies, couldn't find the event you refer to above on the first Saturdays of the month. I see IDPA Action Pistol at "IDPA Action Pistol – 1st Friday & 2nd & 4th Saturdays", but couldn't find anything for 1st Saturdays each month. Regardless, I'll try to make it and connect up with Matt and ask questions after the match. Thanks for responding...

    I'll have to ask if the IDPA crew is permitting PCC. I *think* they are, but I'm not positive.

    We have recently taken over the 1st Saturday from the IDPA guys as they had a match director who retired and moved away. The IDPA dates are now 2nd Saturdays, 4th Saturdays and the Friday that is right before the 4th Saturday (it is usually the 4th Friday, but some months it could be the 3rd Friday).

    As for the AAFG USPSA matches, here is a link to our Practiscore page:

    https://practiscore.com/clubs/aafg-uspsa

    Match sign up goes live on the Friday the week before the match at 8:00 PM.

    Let me know if you have any other questions,
    Jason
     

    BigT5g

    Ultimate Member
    May 12, 2014
    1,442
    Dayton MD
    I'll have to ask if the IDPA crew is permitting PCC. I *think* they are, but I'm not positive.

    We have recently taken over the 1st Saturday from the IDPA guys as they had a match director who retired and moved away. The IDPA dates are now 2nd Saturdays, 4th Saturdays and the Friday that is right before the 4th Saturday (it is usually the 4th Friday, but some months it could be the 3rd Friday).

    As for the AAFG USPSA matches, here is a link to our Practiscore page:

    https://practiscore.com/clubs/aafg-uspsa

    Match sign up goes live on the Friday the week before the match at 8:00 PM.

    Let me know if you have any other questions,
    Jason

    Skip let me shoot my PCC at a couple IDPA matches a while ago. For what it's worth.
     

    BigT5g

    Ultimate Member
    May 12, 2014
    1,442
    Dayton MD
    Thank you Jason, I will try very hard to go. I have family off Bay Dale so it's a 90 minute timed drive, so I know the area but was unaware of the range.

    Is this match permitting the PCC under IDPA? Also, I went to your web site and, my apologies, couldn't find the event you refer to above on the first Saturdays of the month. I see IDPA Action Pistol at "IDPA Action Pistol – 1st Friday & 2nd & 4th Saturdays", but couldn't find anything for 1st Saturdays each month. Regardless, I'll try to make it and connect up with Matt and ask questions after the match. Thanks for responding...

    I'll be there on Saturday. Say hi if you happen to make it out to observe!
     

    boss281

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 14, 2012
    1,578
    Carroll County
    I'll be there on Saturday. Say hi if you happen to make it out to observe!

    Trevor, I will try hard to get out there, and at least introduce myself prior to our rifle course in late Sept. I see on Practiscore that they are allowing PCC for this match so hopefully someone participates so I can observe first hand. I haven't yet signed up for IDPA or IPSC/USPSA, so I'm SOL for a while until I get that done. It's not clear what else is required after joining those organizations, other than showing up and giving it a try. Thanks...
     

    boss281

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 14, 2012
    1,578
    Carroll County
    Pay your dues online 10 minutes on their web sites and you can play.

    That's pretty much it.

    Great, I'll sign up for all of them then, and start showing up. The one in AAFG is a bit short notice and I have to change plans, but I think I can butter her up with dinner and a movie in the evening instead of the planned day trip hiking...
     

    hogarth

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 13, 2009
    2,506
    I'll have to ask if the IDPA crew is permitting PCC. I *think* they are, but I'm not positive.

    We have recently taken over the 1st Saturday from the IDPA guys as they had a match director who retired and moved away. The IDPA dates are now 2nd Saturdays, 4th Saturdays and the Friday that is right before the 4th Saturday (it is usually the 4th Friday, but some months it could be the 3rd Friday).

    As for the AAFG USPSA matches, here is a link to our Practiscore page:

    https://practiscore.com/clubs/aafg-uspsa

    Match sign up goes live on the Friday the week before the match at 8:00 PM.

    Let me know if you have any other questions,
    Jason

    Jason,

    I've shot at the last 2 IDPA matches at AAFG and there was at least one PCC shooter each time (last time it was a KelTec Sub2K, the match before I think it was a Sig MPX).

    There was definitely some confusion about how to handle PCC on a few stages, such as those stages that require one-handed retention shooting! I think a lot of people still don't know how some rules apply to PCC, it being so new.
     

    boss281

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 14, 2012
    1,578
    Carroll County
    I'll have to ask if the IDPA crew is permitting PCC. I *think* they are, but I'm not positive.

    We have recently taken over the 1st Saturday from the IDPA guys as they had a match director who retired and moved away. The IDPA dates are now 2nd Saturdays, 4th Saturdays and the Friday that is right before the 4th Saturday (it is usually the 4th Friday, but some months it could be the 3rd Friday).

    As for the AAFG USPSA matches, here is a link to our Practiscore page:

    https://practiscore.com/clubs/aafg-uspsa

    Match sign up goes live on the Friday the week before the match at 8:00 PM.

    Let me know if you have any other questions,
    Jason

    Jason, I've confirmed I'll be there Saturday, and hopefully some PCCs are shooting so I can observe the particulars of rules and usage of the rifle. I'll connect with Matt. If allowed, I'll participate in the USPSA event Sept 2nd at your range. Thanks again.
    John
     

    jason.krywicki

    Active Member
    Sep 8, 2007
    265
    GB, MD
    Jason, I've confirmed I'll be there Saturday, and hopefully some PCCs are shooting so I can observe the particulars of rules and usage of the rifle. I'll connect with Matt. If allowed, I'll participate in the USPSA event Sept 2nd at your range. Thanks again.
    John

    John, sounds good. From the registration, there are not any PCC currently shooting this Saturday. There are guys down there that have shot PCC in the past (Trevor would be one of them).

    Jason
     

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