Frederick County Deer Hunting Rifle Changes - Council member discussion

[minuit]

As many of you know, the DNR recently changes the laws to expand rifle use in Frederick County. Previously much of the county was restricted to shotgun only during deer firearms season.

I received the following email from my local town government. I am unable to attend and am not a deer hunter (though I'm thinking about going next season ) but thought that this may be of interest to our community.

Text of email
"Frederick County Council Member Jerry Donald (District 1) will host a Town Hall meeting on Saturday, December 12th at 2 p.m. at the Ruritan Community Center, 1635 Ballenger Creek Pike, Point of Rocks, MD 21777. The topic of discussion will focus on local firearm provisions for deer hunting. The Maryland Department of Natural Resources (DNR) rules have recently been modified to expand rifle use (formerly restricted to shotgun use only) during deer hunting season. This has generated concern among the residents of southern Frederick County. Councilman Donald wants to hear from all those interested in this issue. Please join in the conversation.

Council Member Donald stated, "Since the new MD DNR rules have gone into effect, a number of my constituents have voiced safety concerns regarding the allowance of rifles to shoot deer in relative close proximity to their homes and neighborhoods. I hope to hear from those who want to express their opinions on this matter."

For additional information, contact Council Member Donald at 301-600-1101 or via email at JDonald@frederickcountymd.gov."

 

[pbharvey]

I recently took my son to a hunter safety class held in Frederick County and the instructor was very upset that the rifle provision passed without their input. (This guy had been around a while and was a great instructor by the way) He was against allowing rifles.
By the way, the instructor had an MDS sticker on his truck.

 

[gtodave]

Figures they'd want to discuss eliminating firearms on the last afternoon of firearms season, when most of the people supporting it will be out in the field, using it.

 

[danb]

Figures they'd want to discuss eliminating firearms on the last afternoon of firearms season, when most of the people supporting it will be out in the field, using it.

There has been blood in the streets. Must be stopped. For the children.

 

[engineerbrian]

I recently took my son to a hunter safety class held in Frederick County and the instructor was very upset that the rifle provision passed without their input. (This guy had been around a while and was a great instructor by the way) He was against allowing rifles.
By the way, the instructor had an MDS sticker on his truck.

I think i know who you are talking about. I have mixed feelings about him and this topic doesnt help as far as i'm concerned.

The old rifle / shotgun boundry line was ridiculous to say the least

 

[fabsroman]

I recently took my son to a hunter safety class held in Frederick County and the instructor was very upset that the rifle provision passed without their input. (This guy had been around a while and was a great instructor by the way) He was against allowing rifles.
By the way, the instructor had an MDS sticker on his truck.

If he does his job well (i.e., teaching people) and people were actually smart enough to learn what he is teaching, then there wouldn't be an issue with people using rifles in most of Frederick County. There is still a lot of farmland in Frederick County. I've been using a .300 Win Mag in Washington County since 1995 and nobody has died as a result. Plenty of other people hunting deer in Washington County with a rifle and nobody has died.

Keep in mind that it is completely acceptable to hunt other game with a rifle in Montgomery and other counties, just not deer. You can shoot groundhogs with a rifle in Montgomery County, just not deer. Now, Montgomery County does have a "No hunting zone" that is set forth on a map that is available from the Montgomery County Police Department. Believe it is also available online nowadays.

With the deer problem that they are having around here, they need to bring rifles back to Howard County.

 

[iH8DemLibz]

I can understand their concern.

Shotgun slugs only travel 23 feet per second. And at a distance of 150 yards barely have enough energy left to punch a hole in a marshmallow peep. Much less go through a neighboring window and tearing a hole through little Fluffie's furry head.

Where as a .45 Long Colt can travel at warp speed and pass through three intergalactic battle cruisers at a distance of infinity times infinity.

Limit the rifle caliber energy to that of shotgun slug energy and it shouldn't present a problem.

There would be oodles of rifles to choose from.

 

[fabsroman]

I can understand their concern.

Shotgun slugs only travel 23 feet per second. And at a distance of 150 yards barely have enough energy left to punch a hole in a marshmallow peep. Much less go through a neighboring window and tearing a hole through little Fluffie's furry head.

Where as a .45 Long Colt can travel at warp speed and pass through three intergalactic battle cruisers at a distance of infinity times infinity.

Limit the rifle caliber energy to that of shotgun slug energy and it shouldn't present a problem.

There would be oodles of rifles to choose from.

The energy isn't really the problem. It has a lot more to do with trajectory and ballistic coefficient.

Now, I really do think you were being sarcastic in what you posted, but just in case people do not understand it, slugs are still deadly out to 150 yards, especially sabots. I have killed deer at 150 yards with sabots. Now, 250 is a completely different ball game, but I am willing to bet that if you can hit it at 250 yards with a slug/sabot, there will still be plenty of energy left in that massive projectile. The accuracy just sucks with shotgun compared to rifles, so getting out to 250 accurately with a shotgun is tough.

.22lr can be shot on a pretty insane trajectory and still be deadly as it comes back down to earth.

Teaching people to shoot into a proper backstop is what is the most important thing, whether it is rifle, pistol, or shotgun. Know your target and what is behind it.

 

[iH8DemLibz]

The energy isn't really the problem. It has a lot more to do with trajectory and ballistic coefficient.

Now, I really do think you were being sarcastic in what you posted, but just in case people do not understand it, slugs are still deadly out to 150 yards, especially sabots. I have killed deer at 150 yards with sabots. Now, 250 is a completely different ball game, but I am willing to bet that if you can hit it at 250 yards with a slug/sabot, there will still be plenty of energy left in that massive projectile. The accuracy just sucks with shotgun compared to rifles, so getting out to 250 accurately with a shotgun is tough.

.22lr can be shot on a pretty insane trajectory and still be deadly as it comes back down to earth.

Teaching people to shoot into a proper backstop is what is the most important thing, whether it is rifle, pistol, or shotgun. Know your target and what is behind it.

Excellent pick-up on the sarcasm.

That's my point. There's nothing safe about a 300 grain solid copper slug that has 1,450 pounds of energy at the muzzle and 1,000 pounds at 100 yards. And it will flat out kill at 150 yards. Decrease the bullet weight and it will kill at even greater distances.

There are plenty of pistol caliber rifles that would do a bang-up job on Bambi. And they have less energy than a sabot slug. A .45-70 Government round would be in the ballpark of a sabot slug.

My main point is that Maryland has it's head squarely up its butt when it comes to hunting rules, regulations, what is safe, and what is not.

Some idiot said shotguns only and everyone else agreed. Without one second of ballistics research being undertaken.

I'll have to double check the rules, but I think you can hunt Fox with a high power rifle in shotgun only counties for Deer.

I guess high power rifle bullets have less energy and are more safe during Fox season.

 

[fidelity]

I recently took my son to a hunter safety class held in Frederick County and the instructor was very upset that the rifle provision passed without their input. (This guy had been around a while and was a great instructor by the way) He was against allowing rifles.
By the way, the instructor had an MDS sticker on his truck.

If you were there for the November 19-21 session, we were sitting in the same class. I was also there for one of my sons.

 

[traveller]

The entire state should be rifle if you use a stand.

If someone puts holes into houses, they will do so with a slug-gun or rifle.

 

[trailman]

I recently took my son to a hunter safety class held in Frederick County and the instructor was very upset that the rifle provision passed without their input. (This guy had been around a while and was a great instructor by the way) He was against allowing rifles.
By the way, the instructor had an MDS sticker on his truck.

What club were you at?

 

[trailman]

Also as an aside, the county was changed back to rifle by DNR via a "regulatory" change. It magically happened last month I think. Word is they believe they screwed up and its going to magically change back. This is pretty much BS because it was talked to death when Billy "the midget" Shreve was pushing it as an election issue.

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

I fired off an email to the councilman who is hosting this meeting:

Dear Councilman Donald,

I read with interest that you have scheduled a town hall meeting to discuss changes on the firearms rules. Whether it was intentional or not the fact that the meeting was scheduled on the last day of Maryland’s firearm season gives me great concern that only one point of view will be expressed at that meeting. I know I will be out in a tree stand that day and unable to attend!
Therefore I wanted to take the time to write you on behalf of myself and the two other hunters in my household to let you know that we were delighted by the changes and certainly would like to see the South Mountain, Jefferson and areas south of Route 340 remain open to rifles. The whole shotgun/rifle debate was done without any logical consideration of ballistics and other factors. Additionally as a volunteer EMT I am all too aware of the toll that deer-car collisions take on us in this area and anything helps bring the deer population down is a positive.
Thank you for considering our opinion in this matter and as your constituent I would ask that you support the DNR’s current rules.

Sincerely,

his response:

Dear Mr. CharlieFoxtrot:

The meeting in Point of Rocks was scheduled at the request of residents who wanted to talk about this. This began in Middletown when their town commissioners and burgess asked me and Senator Hough about the DNR change. They then requested that the senator put in legislation so that the area around Middletown go back to shotgun only during rifle season. I then decided to ask other towns what they wanted to do. For example I contacted Burkittsville and they want to return to shotgun only. Some areas in my district are unincorporated, such as Jefferson and Point of Rocks. The Jefferson Ruritan is very large and active, so I have asked them to survey their members. They agreed and will get back to me. The Point of Rocks Ruritan was uncomfortable doing that and preferred to have a public meeting, so I accommodated them.

Because this has to be changed through state law or regulation, it needed to be done before the holidays and early January, when the Assembly goes into session. That is how we wound up with Saturday's date. It wasn't done to exclude hunters. When this is all finished I will simply tell the delegation what I have learned from the meetings I've attended. It's then up to them to deal with the DNR since it is a state function. Your email in support of the change to rifles will, of course, be included

I hope this answers any concerns you have. Feel free to contact me again on any issues concerning the county.

Jerry

anyone else wants to contact him his email is JDonald@FrederickCountyMD.gov

 

[fabsroman]

I fired off an email to the councilman who is hosting this meeting:



his response:



anyone else wants to contact him his email is JDonald@FrederickCountyMD.gov

Well, I learn something new every day. I never would have thought that you are a hunter. Well written e-mail, but I would expect such from you.

Somewhat ironic that I used to drive through Middletown and Burkittsville on my way to Boonsboro to deer hunt with a rifle. A good hunting buddy of mine lives in Jefferson, but I thought he lived in Washington County. I will have to write him about this and see if he knows about it. Knowing him, he has already contacted everybody and their mother about this.

The thing is, this is just like the issue we have with anti-gunners. The people opposed to rifles for hunting just have no idea about ballistics. Granted, a rifle does have a much more effective range than a shotgun, but shotgun slugs can be lobbed a heck of a long way too. If somebody is going to be shooting at deer sky lining themselves, it is a very bad idea with a rifle or a slug gun.

Good luck to you on the last day of firearms season and kudos to you for this e-mail and the EMT stuff you do.

 

[trailman]

I fired off an email to the councilman who is hosting this meeting:



his response:



anyone else wants to contact him his email is JDonald@FrederickCountyMD.gov

Following on the post above I'll make a guess as to who the Hunter Safety Instructor is. He is also on the famous Frederick County Sportsman's Council. You guys get involved in this you'll be surprised at who is against you. Mainly the Sportsman's Council. They were against the restoration of the rifle zone and were also against Sunday Hunting in Frederick County for years. They are also the group that tucked tail and let the initial shotgun regs be imposed.

FWIW I'm surprised that Hough is getting involved. This was a regulatory change and not a legislative change. He needs to keep his self centered pie hole out of it and let DNR handle the issue.

You guys ought to be hitting little Billy on this since it was his baby.

 

[LeadSled1]

Hasn't been a problem in Cecil county. Also of note, is the disintegration/fragmenting of rifle rounds when striking branches versus slugs maintaining energy and velocity when this happens. This is part of the issue that happened in Harford where the slug carried into a daycare window. There were other problems that occured with the cause of that incident on the shooters part, but the projectile maintained a lot of energy as it passed through the trees and out of the area being hunted.

 

[Vic]

I think the shotgun only rule is quite myopic in its view. I guess when first instated and they were simply shooting pumpkin balls and Forster slugs it had some potential validity but with the new line up of shotgun slugs available it is a whole new game. I too think they could allow straight wall rifle cartridges to the mix as they did in Ohio. Balistics are balistics and rifles are still more accurate. Then again when a high velocity rifle bullet hits ground it generally breaks up and loses all ballistic nature where as a large hunk of lead does not. If would be really refreshing if someone making the decisions at least consulted with people with some knowledge of firearms. Doubt that will ever happen.
Vic

 

[Raineman]

This is part of the issue that happened in Harford where the slug carried into a daycare window. There were other problems that occured with the cause of that incident on the shooters part, but the projectile maintained a lot of energy as it passed through the trees and out of the area being hunted.

It was Howard Co. and I have been calling "BS" on it for years.

I went there the day after it allegedly happened.

No way in hell it happened like they say, if at all. (tightens foil hat).

 

[Abacab]

I'll dumb this down: Southern Frederick county = Washington, DC ilk. Sad but true.

I will never forget going to look at a house in Myersville and the woman who owned it found out about my intention to go to law school. The first words out of her mouth were, "We really need to get rid of the 2nd Amendment." I nodded, smiled and stated that I disagreed. She followed it up by telling me she got that house to get out of DC because she was afraid if a terrorist attack. After living out there, she decided that it was better to worry about a nuclear bomb than to have to deal with the locals.