strat56
Member
- Feb 23, 2017
- 82
This is easier, isn't it?
The pic wasn't sideways when I looked at it on my phone and computer only when I added the link to it from my web site to the message.
This is easier, isn't it?
Magnumite might be right - It's hard for me to tell from the photo. The Berry bullets tend to deform at even a slight crimp since they are plated (not jacketed) and are soft.
The 9mm Lee seating dies have two crimp shoulders on them - the first does a taper crimp and if you have it really cranked down, the second will do a roll crimp. If you are not using the seating die to crimp, the Lee seating die should be adjusted per Lee as "Screw the bullet seating die in until it touches the shell holder, then back it out three full turns" This *should* have no crimp in the seating die. You shouldn't need much crimp in a 9mm.
From the description, of not seeing any primer strikes on the FTF rounds, you probably either have an oversize condition where the gun isn't going into battery completely or an undersize condition where the cartridge is going into the chamber too far either because of resizing issues or the crimp being too much and it not headspacing correctly.
For it to be an overcrimp that causes the cartridge to go to far into the chamber (assuming the pistol is with SAAMI specs), the crimp would have to make the end of the case less than .358" in diameter (.354 + .004 tolerance). It should be between .380 and .373 in diameter (.380 -.007 tolerance). The SAAMI spec page for 9mm Luger is attached.
Notice that the end taper is spec'd at .0011" (.3811" - .3800")
I don't see anything that is wrong enough to be your issue unless your Sig has a chamber that is at the minimum size. Most production guns are at the middle or big end of the range to avoid ammo issues.I mic'd the 3 cases that failed to fire, here's what I got.
Case 1 Length: .748"
Case 1 Outside Diameter where the bullet was: .375"
Case 1 Outside Diameter at he other end, where the primer is: .386"
Case 2 Length: .762"
Case 2 Outside Diameter where the bullet was: .375"
Case 2 Outside Diameter at he other end, where the primer is: .386"
Case 3 Length: .761"
Case 3 Outside Diameter where the bullet was: .375"
Case 3 Outside Diameter at he other end, where the primer is: .387"
The length on 2 of the cases is over spec of .754, don't know what problems that would cause.
I followed the directions when I set up the Bullet Seating die so that it wouldn't crimp since I had the Factory Crimp die. I'll recheck everything next time I have the it set up.
With cartridges that headspace on the case mouth, the goals of your crimp are to remove the flare and then perhaps 1-2 thousandths in to keep the bullet from compressing during feeding. If you can take the round and push it down (don't gorilla it) towards your tabletop and have the bullet compress, you need to add a tiny bit more crimp, e.g. 1/16th of a turn or less, then try again. Repeat until you see no movement. Or, you could take the caliper approach and shoot for a 1-2 thousandths in. By your pic, it looks like you went a bit more than that.
Typically, many crimp dies have a roll crimp at the upper end of the taper crimp section in the die. The pic shows a clear roll crimp at the top of the case. The roll crimp reduces the diameter of the cases below chamber shoulder spec. The die was set low enough over the case that section of the die was encountered. I dare say pics of some of the fired cases, especially the three problematic cases, will have a line just short of the end of the case where reloaded cartridge case was pushed into the chamber shoulder. Misfires aside, this condition will raise chamber pressures. Considering the small case volume of the 9x19 this increase will easily reach into the not safe zone.
In the previous post to this one mention of adjusting the crimp die until spec micrometer or caliper value is obtained was given. This a good direction to work in.
Those case measurements were they made right at the case mouth, not further back?
Also, did you chamfer the outside of the cases before reloading them?
Any malfuctions at all with factory ammo?
The over length cases could cause the slide not moving forward enough to fire. But at .008" over its doubtful. Not sure of a firing pin block actuation to prevent out of battery firing. A bulged load could do that, sometimes it is actually nonconformity of the case from the web down that causes the bulge though you may not see it. That could hold the slide out of battery enough to cause an issue.
I mic'd a factory Federal cartridge and the measurement right at the case mouth is .375". I have the FCD in 9mm and adjust it so the flare is just eliminated and within the case diameter spec. A couple things to try before you shoot reloads again. Remove the barrel from the pistol and drop each round into the chamber. They should enter with a definite plunk sound. Note the position of the end of the rim relative to the end of the chamber for each round. I would only suspect headspace issues if the same malfunctions occured using good brand factory ammunition.
A die which eliminates reloading steps isn't always a good thing. I bought both the 44 Magnum and 45 ACP FCD's because I thought they would be enhancements. I stopped using the FCD in 44 Magnum and in some instances 45 ACP because I couldn't get enough crimp. In 44 Magnum I encountered bullet creep no matter how much I crimped with the FCD. In 45 ACP I encountered setback during feeding using some components. Going back to the RCBS crimp dies eliminated both issues.
I am a fan of Lee's rifle collet FCD's. Their handgun FCD's biggest advsntage is the carbide resizer at the bottom of the die. Otherwise there are better crimp dies out there.
At the range today, I had 3 failures to fire, several failure to eject and most of the rounds that ejected, ejected directly back at me. The FTFs didn't even have a dimple in the primer. One of the FTFs was a little difficult to rack the slide to eject it.
Jack
When I was working up loads for my first 9mm I used 800X because it was one of the few powders in the 9MM list that was on the shelf. I never got it to cycle correctly. No matter how much I poured into the case( within limits of the recipe) it failed to cycle the firearm. I finally figured out the powder was too slow because there was un-burnt powder on the range table. Changed to unique and haven't liked back since. Lesson learned: just because a powder is listed as appropriate for a given cartridge doesn't mean it will work. Take a look at the combined powder speed chart and see if your powder is closer to Unique or 800X.
I had a round that failed to eject and locked the gun up tight. Couldn't move the slide, much less eject the round. Flagged it as unsafe and took it to my local gunsmith. Turned out it was a squib (the only one I've encountered so far) There was either insufficient or no powder in the case . The primer went off, ejecting the projectile into the barrel and bulging the case enough to lock up the slide. Both your problems suggest to me insufficient charge. How many hand load rounds did you fire? What is your procedure for spot checking powder drops? Are we talking 3 failures out of 250, or 3 out of 3? If its 3 out of 3, reevaluate you powder selection. If its 3 out of 250, you might have had a hard spot in the powder that clogged up the powder channel and gave you a light load.
Right at the case mouth.
I did not do any case prep before reloading. As part of reloading I did flare the case mouth a little.
None that I can remember. Occasionally a case would eject and hit me but it was rare. I shoot left handed so I assume it's more likely that I'll get hit with ejecting cases than someone that shoots right handed but it never happened with almost every round.
Good to know, thank you.
I have 100 rounds of 124gr reloads pretty much the same spec as the 115gr I shot last weekend that I'm going to try this weekend before I load any more and see if they do the same thing. I made the OAL on these shorter, around 1.142 because that's what it said on the VihtaVuori web site for plated 124gr bullets.
I wasn't aware I was eliminating any reloading steps by using the FCD. Which one am I missing?
I'm new at this so if there's something better I'm willing to use it. I bought Lee Dies because I'd read that they were good and reasonably priced. I'm open to anything that is better as long as it's not prohibitively expensive.
OP, in reading through this thread and your comments, I think you're dealing with a charge weight issue here. Your mentioned "target" charge weight appears to be starting charge weight for a plated 115 grain bullet, with a lot of room to move upwards. I also think your 124 grain loads that you'll shoot this weekend may well perform fine, given the 9 grain heavier bullet, the same charge as previous that you mentioned, and the increase of seating depth down to the recommended 1.142, where you were seating I believe to 1.162 previously.
Let us know how the 124's perform for you.
I went to the range today and shot 200 rounds of 124gr reloads, here's how they were loaded:
124gr Berry's Plated RN bullet
5.4gr VV 3N37 powder
CCI primer
WIN cases
OAL 1.142
No fail to fire and no fail to eject, several of them still ejected back at me but the majority didn't, the accuracy was as good as it could be with me behind the pistol.
Much happier with the results but I'm going to try some other loads and maybe make the crimp a little lighter. 5.4gr is the minimum load on the VihtaVuori web site for 124gr plated bullet the max is 6.0. I think I'm going to load some more, 10 each maybe, with 5.5gr, 5.6gr and 5.7gr and take them to the range and see how I like them. I've never shot any 147gr so I bought a box of Winchester 147gr FMJ today at Cabela's on sale for $15.99. I'll also shoot them next range trip.
Thanks,
Jack