First and probably last visit to Gilbert Indoor Range

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  • trickg

    Guns 'n Drums
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 22, 2008
    14,725
    Glen Burnie
    trickg,

    Thank you for your sound advice and the insight into your savvy outlook on operating a business.

    From your statements you really have no clue and way off base on the motivation for the free open house for volunteers. You obviously do not have the volunteer mindset, and you probably have never donated any of your time to help the community on a regular basis. And, it is not about the money!

    Please share your crystal ball to predict the staff needed and to make it pretty simple for me too.
    As 4g64 mentioned, I'm a military veteran - I recently retired after having finally cobbled together 20 years of service over a 34 year span of time. He's also correct that I give pro-bono music lessons to kids from my hometown in the rural Midwest. Because of having grown up there and somehow managing to carve out a career as a military trumpet player in spite of my lack of any kind of formal music training during my formative years, I'm trying to help give kids a step up and half a chance if they want to pursue music in any kind of a meaningful way outside of their school music programs. As a trumpet player I've played "Taps" for military honors at literally hundreds of funerals for deceased veterans' families. My wife is a retired school teacher - I've given all kinds of my time towards school events in support of the schools where she worked for her 31 years. I volunteer at my church - I ply the musical skills I've developed over a lifetime of experience I've garnered as a paid working musician, and I do it completely free of charge.

    I've been a freelance musician long enough to know that if I don't check the right boxes - being on time, being prepared, and most importantly, doing the job I was hired to do - I won't get hired again if my paying client ever has a future need of the musical services I provide.

    My issue with you isn't really about what happened on the day of the event. My issue is the general mindset and attitude you have come back with regarding what it is you do as a business owner, and your approach to a customer who had less than a good experience in your establishment.

    No - I don't have a crystal ball, but I do know a thing or two about talking through logistics for possible turnout of an event of this nature. Maybe this was your first foray into this kind of event and therefore you were totally unprepared or overwhelmed by the turnout because it drew a much larger crowd than you'd anticipated, and that's fine, but that's not how you came back to FN509Fan.

    Rather than coming back and saying, "I had no idea that your wife felt she was snubbed, and felt that it happened because she was a woman - I'll make sure to confer with my staff to mitigate that sort of thing from happening again." Or you could have said something to the effect of, "I'd like to offer our apologies - we had no idea regarding the turnout we were going to have, and our staff was overwhelmed at times - please give us another chance to show you that we really are a business who cares about our customers." You could have even gotten together with them in a Private Message and offered them another round of free range time as a means to show them that you do care about them as people and as customers.

    You didn't do any of those things. Instead, you came on here and berated the customer for what was clearly an unsatisfactory experience on their end due to deficiencies on yours. It doesn't matter if those deficiencies were intentional or not - from the perspective of the customer, they happened, and it seems to me that FN509Fan was pretty reasonable in their expectations. You had a golden opportunity to come on here and make it right, and you could have handled it any number of ways that would have worked out in everyone's favor - not only with FN509Fan, but with the rest of us reading this thread, some of whom are close enough to be patrons in your establishment. Instead, you criticized and berated the customer and attempted to put it on them for their lack of understanding and appreciation for the event you CHOSE to host.

    Again, it's all about mindset and attitude, and how you chose to approach a customer. We live in an area where we have choices about where and how to spend our money, and customer service and support is paramount. People in the firearms community are not generally very tolerant of what they perceive to be poor customer service.

    There are entire lengthy threads dedicated to the customer service of the ranges and shops that are focused on gun owners and hunters - Select Fire, Continental Arms, Cindy's Hot Shots, On Target (now also owned by Cindy's) and Worth a Shot are a few that immediately come to mind. We care about it enough that we create threads on it and discuss it. With that in mind, I just think you approach should have been conciliatory rather than accusatory.
     

    USAF05

    Just one more gun...
    Sep 26, 2022
    336
    Andrews AF
    That review wasn't necessarily scathing. I honestly would have still given the range a chance in spite of the review. BUT, the way the owner responded, lets me know not to waste my time.
     

    pbharvey

    Habitual Testifier
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    30,216
    We are a little taken back on your critical post on Maryland Shooters forum from your visit for the free-range time on our First Responder & Volunteer Appreciation Day. Instead of a thank you for opening our range free of charge, showing our appreciation to you guys, we got criticized.

    This event was a non-commercial activity to show our appreciation to our first responders and community volunteers that dedicate their time to our fellow citizens. This was a free social gathering of first responders and volunteers, and for other volunteer organizations to get to know each other.

    How would you feel if you invited me to your house for a barbeque, and I later complained to my friends that the hamburgers were overcooked, and I had to wait 10 minutes for my free meal? I am sorry that you had to wait 10 minutes to check the integrity of the ammo and that the parking lot was full.

    The session was exclusively open to first responders and volunteers and not open to our general membership, it was just for people like you that have a common interest in firearms and volunteering. We had limited staff on hand that we had to pay out of our own pocket, plus the expense of running the lights and ventilation system. Plus, we had no clue how many people would come in for the free session. However, it is not all about money.

    There were more 2 women, we had over 8 women participating in the event, and they were most appreciative of our service and our assistance while they were on the range. (Free of charge), some of who were first time shooters.

    I do not know of any range in the area including MSAR that will open their range and services to you free of charge. Again, it is not all about the money.

    The side that we put you on is still under construction waiting for the glass panels and skins for the booths.

    Also, I hope you were able to enjoy the free donuts, bagels and coffee that we provided.

    Best regards,
    G
    His complaint was about how his wife was treated.
    Your response was "we didn't charge you anything."
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,891
    Rockville, MD
    Not being able to use reloads is kind of a deal-breaker. I appreciate that at least we can bring ammo now, but 99% of what I shoot is reloads. Not fun being a range in MoCo, I know.
     

    Art3

    Eqinsu Ocha
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 30, 2015
    13,324
    Harford County
    ...

    Rather than coming back and saying, "I had no idea that your wife felt she was snubbed, and felt that it happened because she was a woman - I'll make sure to confer with my staff to mitigate that sort of thing from happening again." Or you could have said something to the effect of, "I'd like to offer our apologies - we had no idea regarding the turnout we were going to have, and our staff was overwhelmed at times - please give us another chance to show you that we really are a business who cares about our customers." You could have even gotten together with them in a Private Message and offered them another round of free range time as a means to show them that you do care about them as people and as customers.

    ...
    This probably would have earned more customers...but I don't have a business crystal ball either. I do have a pretty good memory about what businesses I will or will not support though (and why) ;)
     

    eruby

    Confederate Jew
    MDS Supporter
    Same here.

    As a life-long, card carrying member of rabble, I am in a constant state of rousal and with that, occasionally needs milking.
    So the next MDS meetup is at Gilbert's Indoor Range?

    Screenshot_20230628-124048~2.png
     

    hodgepodge

    Senior Member (Gold)
    Sep 3, 2009
    10,100
    Arnold, MD
    Several years ago, I was studying customer service. I read a lot.

    One big lesson I learned was that all businesses or service providers screw up. The key thing is how you recover, how you resolve the issue, and how you make the customer feel better.

    Gilbert read about the issue and blamed the customer and bad-mouthed a member here.

    Sigh.
     

    Boondock Saint

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 11, 2008
    24,495
    White Marsh
    Several years ago, I was studying customer service. I read a lot.

    One big lesson I learned was that all businesses or service providers screw up. The key thing is how you recover, how you resolve the issue, and how you make the customer feel better.

    Gilbert read about the issue and blamed the customer and bad-mouthed a member here.

    Sigh.

    Absolutely. The response to an issue tells me all I need to know about the people with whom I am/was doing business.
     

    trickg

    Guns 'n Drums
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 22, 2008
    14,725
    Glen Burnie
    Several years ago, I was studying customer service. I read a lot.

    One big lesson I learned was that all businesses or service providers screw up. The key thing is how you recover, how you resolve the issue, and how you make the customer feel better.

    Gilbert read about the issue and blamed the customer and bad-mouthed a member here.

    Sigh.
    I'm not sure I'm the member you're referring to about being bad-mouthed. If it is, I'm ok with it - after all, I'm the one who decided to jump into the middle of the fray and call out what I believed to be an incorrect approach to customer service. The truth is, it wasn't really any of my business other than the fact that it's a thread on a public forum.

    I can also understand Gilbert wanting to defend their point of view - particularly with me. I expressed an opinion and we all know what is said about opinions - they're like buttholes - everyone has one and they all stink, so I can own that.

    I think there is still a way out of this where everyone comes away feeling ok, but it isn't there yet.
     

    JohnnyE

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 18, 2013
    9,638
    MoCo
    Several years ago, I was studying customer service. I read a lot.

    One big lesson I learned was that all businesses or service providers screw up. The key thing is how you recover, how you resolve the issue, and how you make the customer feel better.

    Gilbert read about the issue and blamed the customer and bad-mouthed a member here.

    Sigh.
    Our family has been in business to business professional services, and business to consumer retail fields for four generations, and we could not agree more. A simple perusal of Google, Yelp or other platforms will show that the most effective business responses to customer complaints usually start out saying "I'm sorry our product/services did not meet your expectations," include a thank for useful feedback, contain a promise to do better the next time, and invite them back (maybe even offering a spiff) for a better experience.
     

    4g64loser

    Bad influence
    Jan 18, 2007
    6,552
    maryland
    Absolutely. The response to an issue tells me all I need to know about the people with whom I am/was doing business.
    Agreed.

    I am in the process of severing a two decade business relationship because of how the vendor screwed up and then manages to continue to screw up. Apologies without modified behavior/response/process are essentially a middle finger as far as I am concerned. In a very competitive industry that is rate and service driven, this company is history.

    Ranges (except for private clubs) are for-profit businesses. The VERY few that existed could, for some time, do just fine at any level of service due to their mere presence/lack of competition. In the central MD market, there is now greater competition with new indoor ranges opening in more recent years. This will either result in shift of market share or modification of business structure. Not specific to gilbert's in any way, just the facts of the market in the area.
     

    smokey

    2A TEACHER
    Jan 31, 2008
    31,537
    When reading a critical review of a product or business I always have, "maybe it was just a one-off fluke" or even, "maybe the person giving the review is actually the problem". The big deciding factors are if repeated reviews say similar things and how the business responds to criticism

    In this case, Gilbert's probably should have responded with something like...

    "We are sorry for your negative experience. We strive hard to give our customers the best and safest shooting experience around, especially when those customers are public servants. We hope you will give us another chance. We've sent you a private message for another day on us.

    In the meantime these are the steps we have in place to ensure your negative experience does not happen again..."

    Instead, Gilbert's got butthurt and came out swinging. It's a bad look and lends credibility to the OP's experience. It's a shame that Gilbert's missed this opportunity to earn customer loyalty.
     

    chilipeppermaniac

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Trickg actually spends his own time mentoring young musicians, some of them from less than stellar circumstances, and has spent his own money to assist them in their pursuit of self improvement. He is himself a military vet with many years of service to his country. I don't know him very well but my few meetings have led me to believe that he is a stand up guy.

    I don't know if he has a crystal ball.
    4g64loser,

    From what he tells me, he has brass balls.
     
    May 21, 2017
    2,903
    Gaithersburg, MD
    Our family has been in business to business professional services, and business to consumer retail fields for four generations, and we could not agree more. A simple perusal of Google, Yelp or other platforms will show that the most effective business responses to customer complaints usually start out saying "I'm sorry our product/services did not meet your expectations," include a thank for useful feedback, contain a promise to do better the next time, and invite them back (maybe even offering a spiff) for a better experience.
    Couldn't agree more.
    One thing I never did understand though is the old adage "the customer is always right". Um....no. They aren't. Some customers are just dickheads and will never be happy no matter how hard a business tries. Not referring to the scenario in this thread, just in general.
     

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