Fired shell casings: Do all new guns have them?

[CMOS]

Maryland requires fired shell casings for new guns transferred. That makes sense, given that the justice league has solved so many crimes using fired shell casings.

Anyway, are most manufacturers including them with guns these days to make it easier to move guns around through distribution channels?

The point is this: If I'm looking at some random HK, Sig, Glock, etc online on gunbroker or wherever and want to get that transferred to me in MD, what are the chances that I'm going to get hung up on the fired shell casing not being with the gun?

 

[mikec]

Some makers are doing it 100%, others are on request.

There is hope however. Any ATF licensed 07, aka manufacturer, can test fire the gun and make the gun MD legal. Off the top of my head, Gun Connection, "carryaglock" also known as Marlin at PDI, Corsica Coatings and midcountygunshop, are licensed as such.

What this means is if you find a handgun without a casing, you can have the gun sent to one of these shops for the casing and then on to your transfer FFL. You also can use the shop doing the casing to handle the transfer, except for Marlin's shop, it is in WV.

 

[zebramochaman]

I recently won a Taurus Judge on Auction Arms that did not have the fired casings. I used Engagement Arms in Kensington to do the transfer. They charged me an extra $25 to do the casing.

 

[mbz300sdl]

I recently won a Taurus Judge on Auction Arms that did not have the fired casings. I used Engagement Arms in Kensington to do the transfer. They charged me an extra $25 to do the casing.

Ouch!

 

[mikec]

I recently won a Taurus Judge on Auction Arms that did not have the fired casings. I used Engagement Arms in Kensington to do the transfer. They charged me an extra $25 to do the casing.

Ouch!

When the law was first passed MSP would do the casings. They charged $25 and that was seven or eight years ago.

What I was told was that retired MSP officers would do the test firing. Imagine the business they could have had if the continued doing the cases.

 

[smores]

Ouch!

What do the other Industry Partners charge?


To the OP: Check out Engage, if you're in MoCo it shouldn't be a far drive for you. Unlike Atlantic, they take transfers on any MD-approved handgun and will take care of the shell casing if you need it.

 

[mbz300sdl]

What do the other Industry Partners charge?

$20 at Hafer's as long as you provide the shell.

I understand they need to run a business but I think i'll buy used if it needs a shell fired.

 

[1raggedhole]

Maryland Fired Case Law

Here is how the law reads, the actual text:
$5-131. Handgun identification requirements
(a) Definitions. -
----skip to (2)----
(2) "Manufacturer" means a person who possesses a federal license to engage in the business of manufacturing firearms or ammunition for sale or distribution.
----skip to (b)----
(b) Manufacturer reguirements.- A manufacturer that ships or transports a handgun for sale, rental, or transfer in the State shall include in the box with the handgun in a separate, sealed container:
(1) a shell casing of a projectile discharged from the handgun; and
(2) additional information that the Secretary requires to identify the type of handgun and shell casing.
----and it goes on----

However,
$5-137. Out-of-state purchases.
(a) Requirements for purchase.- A person who seeks to own a regulated firearm and purchases the firearm from an out-of-state federally licensed gun importer, manufaturer, or dealer shall:
----skip to (2)----
(2) comply with $$5-103, 5-104, 5-117 through 5-129, and 5-136 of this subtitle.
----and it goes on----

First, by the definition written into Maryland law, an out-of-state dealer is not a MANUFACTURER. So after reading how the actual laws are written, by $5-131, an out-of-state dealer is not a MANUFACTURER, and thereby does not have to comply with $5-131, and even besides that exemption, an out-of-state dealer is not required, by it's omission from $5-137, to comply with $5-131 anyway, and so there are not 1 but 2 exemptions from the "Fired Case" law for purchases from an out-of-state dealer, so here's what eludes me:

Why is anyone concerned about the "Fired Case" law with an out-of-state purchase on say, Gunbroker.com or AuctionArms.com, when there are 2 exemptions from the "Fired Case" law written into Maryland Law?

 

[Redd Byrd]

I recently won a Taurus Judge on Auction Arms that did not have the fired casings. I used Engagement Arms in Kensington to do the transfer. They charged me an extra $25 to do the casing.

I'm sure they cleaned the piece real good after fireing it

 

[carryaglock]

What do the other Industry Partners charge?

For MDS members it's $5 if your having it shipped to us, if purchased from us it's free.

 

[Medic49]

I apologize that this is somewhat unrelated, but just curious. How accurate are the markings on these shells? Are the markings unique like fingerprints and LE can just upload the shell and identify exactly who's gun it was?

 

[smores]

I apologize that this is somewhat unrelated, but just curious. How accurate are the markings on these shells? Are the markings unique like fingerprints and LE can just upload the shell and identify exactly who's gun it was?

It's basically irrelevant in MD as the database is more like a huge pile of fired cases, that haven't been cataloged/inserted into some sort of high-tech CSI-like user interface.

To my knowledge, no crimes have ever been solved because of it. There was one case where it was used as evidence, but from what I understand there was more than enough evidence otherwise to get the conviction.

 

[smores]

I'm sure they cleaned the piece real good after fireing it

Where do you get a free cleaning with a fired shell case? I've seen many (most pistols) factory new guns arrive that have not been cleaned after shooting the test target. A lot of suppressors get test fired as well, and come complete with powder residue inside.

 

[mikec]

I apologize that this is somewhat unrelated, but just curious. How accurate are the markings on these shells? Are the markings unique like fingerprints and LE can just upload the shell and identify exactly who's gun it was?

Here are some issues. Take a look at the firing pin of your newest gun, if you can photograph it. Now shoot a few hundred rounds and compare. The theory is great, but in reality it sucks.

Imagine requiring all cars being sold to have tire tread prints done, so that we can help police track hit and run drivers and the like. Common sense says that after a few hundred miles and some potholes the prints would be worthless. Now rotate your tires and drive more miles and things get worse.

Of course, they argue that there are other marks made on a casing, such as breach face, extractor, ejector and chamber. Fire enough rounds and those marks will wear as well.

Now add this to the mix, you can buy a handgun, in .40 S&W caliber. MSP gets the fired casing but you can go and buy a .357SIG barrel and you are NOT required to provide a casing. Or you can get a SIG .22 conversion kit.

What happens if you send your handgun off to a custom shop and have them do a full house custom number on the gun? Let's say they replace the barrel and replace the MIM extractor and ejector and put a new firing pin in. You aren't required to supply a new casing and from what I have read, they can't demand one.

The law is a feel good law, not a well written law, nor useful.

 

[Medic49]

Here are some issues. Take a look at the firing pin of your newest gun, if you can photograph it. Now shoot a few hundred rounds and compare. The theory is great, but in reality it sucks.

Imagine requiring all cars being sold to have tire tread prints done, so that we can help police track hit and run drivers and the like. Common sense says that after a few hundred miles and some potholes the prints would be worthless. Now rotate your tires and drive more miles and things get worse.

Of course, they argue that there are other marks made on a casing, such as breach face, extractor, ejector and chamber. Fire enough rounds and those marks will wear as well.

Now add this to the mix, you can buy a handgun, in .40 S&W caliber. MSP gets the fired casing but you can go and buy a .357SIG barrel and you are NOT required to provide a casing. Or you can get a SIG .22 conversion kit.

What happens if you send your handgun off to a custom shop and have them do a full house custom number on the gun? Let's say they replace the barrel and replace the MIM extractor and ejector and put a new firing pin in. You aren't required to supply a new casing and from what I have read, they can't demand one.

The law is a feel good law, not a well written law, nor useful.

I am sorry to inform the board that mikec's home was raided this evening and all his weapons and computer taken.

Seriously good points, I've often pondered that as well.

 

[CMOS]

The law is a feel good law, not a well written law, nor useful.

True. But it does make it harder to but handguns over the net and FFL them in state. That was probably the purpose anyway.

 

[mikec]

True. But it does make it harder to but handguns over the net and FFL them in state. That was probably the purpose anyway.

Well, for a period of time you couldn't get a new Colt 1911 or Beretta in MD. This was after MSP stopped doing the fired casings and before some 07's here reread the law and realized that MD's politicians wrote a stupid bill that was passed with flaws and all. The flaw allows any 07 to do the casings. Add to it the fact that many gun makers decided not to run away from NY and MD and provide a casing.

We just need the makers to continue supplying guns with cases and be willing to send new models in for the handgun board to approve.

 

[Flipz]

A while back I was looking at some Springfield 1911's when I was visiting my brother out of state. I was about to buy one and have it transferred when I realized there was no spent casing in the box.

Talked to a couple shops when I got home and it seems like $20-$35 is the range for how much they charge to go through the process of doing the spent casing. The price isnt that bad but shouldnt every manufacturer just supply the spent casing standard. I mean they have to test fire then gun, so they already have the casing. Why not just throw it in the box.

 

[WeaponsCollector]

It's just another useless gun tax designed to make guns more expensive.

 

[mikec]

A while back I was looking at some Springfield 1911's when I was visiting my brother out of state. I was about to buy one and have it transferred when I realized there was no spent casing in the box.

Talked to a couple shops when I got home and it seems like $20-$35 is the range for how much they charge to go through the process of doing the spent casing. The price isnt that bad but shouldnt every manufacturer just supply the spent casing standard. I mean they have to test fire then gun, so they already have the casing. Why not just throw it in the box.

No they don't. No law or requirement to test fire a gun, that is what customer service is for.