Finnish M28 Ski Trooper - To restore or not restore?

[Son of the Oozlefinch]

I just picked up a Finnish Mosin M28 with a ski troop stock. You can see pics here: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=339225526. I believe I may have overpaid a bit, but cest la vie. Anyway, the gun is in superb condition EXCEPT for the stock. As you can see from the pictures the gun is excessively blonde. I knew going in that it was refinished, but it has more issues than I expected. Most egregiously, the stock was sanded at some point. Whoever did this work left the top pair of sling escutcheons in place and removed the others, losng a screw in the process. This means that the top two escutcheons are ground down while the remainder are crisp but protrude. Of less concern, the magazine, trigger guard, butt plate and barrel bands were left in place but he refinisher and wear a coat of clear varnish.

In the past, I have "restified" stocks in this condition by gently removing the alien finish, replacing damaged hardware and refinishing with original materials (in this case i would use a fascimile of the original finish made from BLO, turpentine and beeswax with a dab of sienna and raw umber oil color to approximate the Finn "mystery darkener"). But in this case I am having serious second thoughts. So I have some questions:

• Does anyone know a source for Finnish sling escutcheons and/or escutcheon screws? I've tried the usual suspects (Numrich, Sarco, Liberty Tree, eBay) and found nothing.
• Has anyone ever seen brass shims under the barrel band on a Finn rifle? This one has a thin brass band set under the rear barrel band. If it is bubba work, it is good bubba work.
• And the big question...leave it as-is or attempt a restoration? If I opt for restoration, something minimal like only removing the oil finish on the metal parts, or try to bring the stock back to something resembling the original spec?

 

[h2u]

First, congrats on a tough Finn to get. Not everyone finds and owns a ski-trooper.
What is the serial on the left hand side of the barrel? I ask because the barreled action >may< not be original to this stock. The auction ad states the buttplate serial number doesn't match the rifle. I would normally think the two digit rack number, but maybe this person is looking at a serial number.
Check the long side of the buttplate and look for a two digit number and see if it matches the last two digits of your serial number. Let us know.

If you keep looking, you will find escutcheons on ebay-with screws. They generally run about $10-$15 shipped.
Mineral Spirits should remove the varnish/poly from the metal.
If you look at as many auction ads everyday like I do, you'll begin to see the sanded stock was evident from the pictures and not just refinished. No big deal-that stuff will come with experience

To re-refinish the finish on a Finnish rifle....that is the question (Just so long as you never try to refinish the Finnish finish - you'll be OK)

Bottom line is it's your rifle and do to it what you will. The collectors value has been permanently lowered, but it's still a desirable rifle as there weren't a bunch of 'em made.
Do you like how it looks now? If so, fix the escutcheons and roll on. If not, you have some work ahead of you to try to restore the wood to a semblance of it's former glory.
I can help you with this should you decide to go that route. PM me and we can go over what you need.

I just picked up a Finnish Mosin M28 with a ski troop stock. You can see pics here: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=339225526. I believe I may have overpaid a bit, but cest la vie. Anyway, the gun is in superb condition EXCEPT for the stock. As you can see from the pictures the gun is excessively blonde. I knew going in that it was refinished, but it has more issues than I expected. Most egregiously, the stock was sanded at some point. Whoever did this work left the top pair of sling escutcheons in place and removed the others, losng a screw in the process. This means that the top two escutcheons are ground down while the remainder are crisp but protrude. Of less concern, the magazine, trigger guard, butt plate and barrel bands were left in place but he refinisher and wear a coat of clear varnish.

In the past, I have "restified" stocks in this condition by gently removing the alien finish, replacing damaged hardware and refinishing with original materials (in this case i would use a fascimile of the original finish made from BLO, turpentine and beeswax with a dab of sienna and raw umber oil color to approximate the Finn "mystery darkener"). But in this case I am having serious second thoughts. So I have some questions:

• Does anyone know a source for Finnish sling escutcheons and/or escutcheon screws? I've tried the usual suspects (Numrich, Sarco, Liberty Tree, eBay) and found nothing.
• Has anyone ever seen brass shims under the barrel band on a Finn rifle? This one has a thin brass band set under the rear barrel band. If it is bubba work, it is good bubba work.
• And the big question...leave it as-is or attempt a restoration? If I opt for restoration, something minimal like only removing the oil finish on the metal parts, or try to bring the stock back to something resembling the original spec?

 

[Chaunsey]

if the finish is bad, i would say by all means give it a BLO scrub or something.

i dunno that id stain it though.


if you want to get it looking more like original, you should look into getting some pine tar.

it was the pine tar finish that gave these rifles the darker look. after a few coats of that, you then give it a couple of coats of BLO, because the pine tar leaves a very dull finish, though you could certainly leave it that way too.

 

[Son of the Oozlefinch]

H2u: thanks for the reply. Please check your PM. The serial is o8XXX which if I understand the literature correctly places the barrelled action in the first run of 10K rifles. The SiG barrel markings are consistant with either the first or second run. I'll need to check the buttplate when I get home from work.

 

[Son of the Oozlefinch]

Thanks! I've seen brass shims in the bedding on Finn M91s and even on a Russian prewar 91/30, but never under the barrel bands.

 

[Son of the Oozlefinch]

Thanks! I've read others speaking of using pine tar. I guess I need to do some research.

 

[Threeband]

... to approximate the Finn "mystery darkener")...

http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=633323



http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?162633-Pine-Tar-Gunstock-Finish

 

[h2u]

H2u: thanks for the reply. Please check your PM. The serial is o8XXX which if I understand the literature correctly places the barrelled action in the first run of 10K rifles. The SiG barrel markings are consistant with either the first or second run. I'll need to check the buttplate when I get home from work.

Just in case you didn't know, popular thinking has the double-slotted stocks (aka, "Ski-troopers) as only within the first 6000 rifles and any serial above that number is not considered, "correct".
While this was probably true from the arsenal, those rifles went through several wars and the Finns had to repair/replace many firearms to get them back to the front for their very survival-and I'm reasonably sure they didn't care about what collectors might consider, "correct" 70+ years in the future

Wood breaks and thus stocks got replaced on rifles that needed it. I'm sure many actions were pulled out of broken stocks and stuck in the first available stock within reach. So, while not, "correct" the rifle can stand on it's own merits. Yes, importers, dealers, and Bubba have probably switched a rifle or two around to make a complete rifle to sell, but unless you can prove it...you just gotta go with your gut.

I'd be happy to walk you through the steps of refinishing the rifle the way the Finns were reported to have done it.

 

[h2u]

http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=633323



http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?162633-Pine-Tar-Gunstock-Finish

Nice links. Tom actually makes and markets a Finn pinetar mix along side his original stuff now. I purchased some and touched up an old stock. Worked well!

http://www.thegunstockdoctor.com/Products.html

 

[Son of the Oozlefinch]

Great resources, thanks!

 

[Son of the Oozlefinch]

I've heard that about the first 6K stocks. There is probably no way to know if the barrelled action was originally a "ski trooper". At this late date it does not matter too much. The stock sans the gun is rare and collectible in itself. Hence my hesitation to refinish it.

But if you are willing to share those steps I'd love to read them. There seems to be no end of data on the internet about refinishng Finns, much of it contradictory.

There is a gorgeous unissued (!) M28 stock on eBay right now. Not a ski trooper, but probabaly just as appropriate to the barrelled action. If I had an extra $275 lying about I might grab it. I've swapped stocks on Mosins before, but only when the original was beyond help, like when Bubba decided to remove all that "extra" wood.

 

[Son of the Oozlefinch]

Whether or not I bother the M28's finish, I need those products! I've got a Finn Carcano with a bare replacement foreend that would be served very nicely. Thanks for the link.

 

[mawkie]

Congratulations on getting something even I don't have.
As to restoration I'd vote "yes". The genie is out of the bottle so I'd have a go at mitigating the damage as much as possible.
I picked up a M28/30 last year in the exact same condition. Bubba had removed the original finish and slathered poly god knows what all over the furniture, barrel, trigger guard and mag. Here's the link to that MDS thread.

 

[Son of the Oozlefinch]

That M28/30 in your photos came out gorgeous. That pine tar finish is exactly what I am shootng for. Fortunately your bubba did not feel the need to sand that stock. I am less lucky.

 

[Son of the Oozlefinch]

There are multiple numbers on the buttplate. I have never seen one marked like this.

Top: 85RXXX
Upper face: 50 (very large stamp, but faint)
Center face: 31XXX

I am of the opinion that the buttplate is alien both to the gun and to the stock.

I closely inspected the stock and found a sanded-out stamp on the right of the butt: 71XXX or 51XXX. Directly above it is the ghost of a round cartouche about 10 mm in diameter. Both of these were deeply sanded, much more so than the rest of the stock IMO. There are no markings in the finger grooves.

The original color was definitely deep reddish brown and protected areas have the distinct "Finn smell" that I have encountered on pristine M39s. Pine tar?

Another mystery is the origin of the receiver. There is no Ishevsk or Tula mark, even on the bottom of the tang. The bottom of the tang has a small number "33" and a large number "2." There are a profusion of tiny proofs and a handful of characters that appear Cyrillic, most notably the "backwards N" paired with a 7, as in "N7". The magazine follower and floorplate carry the Sestroryetsk Arrow.

 

[Sirex]

Looks nice from the pics on GB. Congrats on it.