Felony conviction - Black Powder?

[Felonious_Hacks]

Hi everyone.

I'll give a quick introduction here. I'm an MD resident who was convicted in another state of a felony for computer hacking, received probation. Frankly the prosecutor was trying to make an example out of me, as a similar case not long before mine plead down to a misdemeanor. I'm not trying to deny that what I did was wrong, it was. But I certainly don't think that this by any stretch of the imagination makes me unfit to possess firearms. I didn't steal or destroy anything, just played a prank by misusing my technical skills that was taken quite badly.

I'm currently working on getting my rights restored by that state, but that is a slow, expensive and laborious process.

My question is until that time, can I possess black powder firearms in MD?

I found MD annotated code § 5-622 prohibiting drug offenders, but I can't seem to find anything else pertaining to possession of black powder firearms by convicted non-violent felons.

And just to show you how silly laws can get, over in DE I can possess any gun I want! Go figure!

Again I know I really goofed here, I accept that. But I take the four rules religiously, have never been in a fight in my life, never had a traffic ticket, drive the speed limit, etc. I really wish the prosecutor assigned to my case had thought the consequences of this through (as I wish I'd thought the consequences through too!)

Thanks!

 

[Inigoes]

pre-1899 Black powder firearms and their replicas are considered antiques.

That is an important legal distinction for someone in your position.

 

[TyFromMD]

Federal firearms laws prohibit you from owning a firearm.

However, from:

https://www.atf.gov/files/firearms/industry/0501-firearms-top-10-qas.pdf

1. Can a person prohibited by law from possessing a firearm acquire and use a black powder
muzzle loading firearm?
The Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA) prohibits felons and certain other persons from possessing or
receiving firearms and ammunition (“prohibited persons”). These categories can be found at 18
U.S.C. § 922(g) and (n) in http://atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf.
However, Federal law does not prohibit these persons from possessing or receiving an antique
firearm. The term “antique firearm” means any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock,
flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898. The
definition includes any replica of an antique firearm if it is not designed or redesigned for using
rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or uses rimfire or conventional centerfire
ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States, and which is not readily available
in ordinary channels of commercial trade. Further, any muzzle loading rifle, shotgun, or pistol which
is designed to use black powder or black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition,
is an “antique firearm” unless it (1) incorporates a firearm frame or receiver; (2) is a firearm which is
converted into a muzzle loading weapon; or (3) is a muzzle loading weapon which can be readily
converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination
thereof. See 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3), (a)(16).
Thus, a muzzle loading weapon that meets the definition of an “antique firearm” is not a firearm and
may lawfully be received and possessed by a prohibited person under the GCA.
In addition, the GCA defines the term “ammunition” to mean “ammunition or cartridge cases,
primers, bullets, or propellant powder designed for use in any firearm.” Because an “antique firearm”
is not a “firearm,” it would is lawful for a prohibited person to receive or possess black powder
designed for use in an “antique firearm.” Also, the Federal explosives laws do not make it unlawful
for a prohibited person to acquire and possess black powder in quantities not exceeding fifty pounds
if it is intended to be used solely for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes in “antique firearms.”
See 18 U.S.C. § 845(a)(5)

By contrast, a prohibited person may not receive or possess black powder firearms that can be readily
converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination
thereof. ATF has classified certain muzzle loading models as firearms. All of these models
incorporate the frame or receiver of a firearm that is capable of accepting barrels designed to fire
conventional rimfire or centerfire fixed ammunition. These muzzle loading models do not meet the
definition of “antique firearm” as that term is defined in 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(16), and are “firearms”
as defined in 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3). Furthermore, as firearms, these and similar models, regardless of
the barrel installed on the firearm or provided with the firearm, are subject to all provisions of the
GCA. Persons who purchase these firearms from licensed dealers are required to fill out a Firearms
Transaction Record, ATF Form 4473, and are subject to a National Instant Criminal Background
Check System (NICS) check. Felons and other prohibited persons may not lawfully receive or
possess these firearms or ammunition.
The following is a list of weapons that load from the muzzle and are classified as firearms, not
antiques, under the GCA, because they incorporate the frame or receiver of a firearm:- 2 -

• Savage Model 10ML (early, 1st version)
• Mossberg 500 shotgun with muzzle loading barrel
• Remington 870 shotgun with muzzle loading barrel
• Mauser 98 rifle with muzzle loading barrel
• SKS rifle with muzzle loading barrel
• PB sM10 pistol with muzzle loading barrel
• H&R/New England Firearm Huntsman
• Thompson Center Encore/Contender
• Rossi .50 muzzle loading rifle
This list is not complete and frequently changes. There may be other muzzle loaders also classified as
firearms. As noted, any muzzle loading weapon that is built on a firearm frame or receiver falls
within the definition of a firearm provided in 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3).
Finally, even though a prohibited person may lawfully possess an antique firearm under Federal law,
State or local law may classify such weapons as “firearms” subject to regulation. Any person
considering acquiring a black powder weapon should contact his or her State Attorney General’s
Office to inquire about the laws and possible State or local restrictions. A list of State Attorney
General contact numbers may be found at www.naag.org

 

[240 towles]

what the hell is a muzzle loading SKS?

 

[Felonious_Hacks]

Federal firearms laws prohibit you from owning a firearm.

That is where things get extreme odd and sticky, with firearms rights restoration on a state by state basis. Take Virginia as an example! http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_Restoration.shtm

The more I read up on the patchwork of laws covering this, the more confusing it all gets... It would be handy if the second amendment actually applied.

Edit: And of course I plan to get some of Quakenbush's airguns when the waiting list opens again! Those look sweet!

And as for that "muzzleloading SKS"... looks real! I was skeptical too! http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=367645

 

[Gbh]

what the hell is a muzzle loading SKS?

CHINESE Model 56 Siminov SKS black-powder muzzleloading rifle .50cal

 

[Kman]

CHINESE Model 56 Siminov SKS black-powder muzzleloading rifle .50cal

Now that's just stupid.

 

[flyingblind]

Can you own the antique? I believe you can, the issue becomes the moment you posess the components to load it, at that point you are in possession of a firearm I believe, I believe this is how reenactors get away with having cap and ball revolvers younger than 21 (cap and powder no ball) personally I would work on getting the felony off your record.

 

[r3t1awr3yd]

Can you own the antique? I believe you can, the issue becomes the moment you posess the components to load it, at that point you are in possession of a firearm I believe, I believe this is how reenactors get away with having cap and ball revolvers younger than 21 (cap and powder no ball) personally I would work on getting the felony off your record.

From the quoted law above.

"Because an “antique firearm” is not a “firearm,” it would is lawful for a prohibited person to receive or possess black powder designed for use in an “antique firearm.” Also, the Federal explosives laws do not make it unlawful for a prohibited person to acquire and possess black powder in quantities not exceeding fifty pounds if it is intended to be used solely for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes in “antique firearms.” See 18 U.S.C. § 845(a)(5)"

 

[Felonious_Hacks]

personally I would work on getting the felony off your record.

I certainly am! The unfortunate thing is even with a lot of money and connections (I am one of those sons of b*tches who has both), this is not an overnight process. I've got a top lawyer working on it, but he says three years or a more is the time frame I'm looking at.

Despite the sheer awesomeness of Quackenbush's airguns, and my ability to legally shoot at ranges in several other states, I'd like to own whatever I can in MD in the interim before I'm considered a "good citizen" again.

 

[Streetgang]

This is a prime example of why I don't agree with disquaifying felons from firearms ownership.
If you pay your debt to society, you're paid in full. end of story. If someone can't be trusted with full rights, then they probably still need to be in jail.

 

[ken792]

So get an antique Mosin?

 

[Jackalope]

Here's some good info for you.
http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/percussion-pistols-a-handgun-when-you-cant-buy-a-handgun/
http://www.mdgunsafety.com/mspfaq.htm You're interested in this part..."Is a black powder gun considered a firearm? No, per federal law statutes, this type of firearm is considered an antique and does not qualify under the regulated firearm guidelines." This is from the state not federal.


Then take your pick, order it on line and its shipped directly to your front door no paper work and no bull shit.

http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/blackpowder-revolvers.html

http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/brow...4503680?WTz_l=SBC;MMcat104792580;cat104701680

Add in some of these cause dealing with powder is messy... http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shoo...=SBC;MMcat104792580;cat104701680;cat104511780

You want to get the .454 round balls not the ,451 they're a tad on the small side. You can also buy molds for casting your own and then just buy fishing weights and melt them down to make your own ammo.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shoo...=SBC;MMcat104792580;cat104701680;cat104547780

Then add the cap, #10's work best and go shooting LEGALLY here in this Marxist state.

You can also get a few of these... http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shoo...=SBC;MMcat104792580;cat104701680;cat104218380 to load up in advance and then you just change out the cylinder much like changing a magazine in a modern semi-auto handgun.

Do some research and you'll find these non "firearms" not only work great but are ALOT of fun to shoot.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

This is a prime example of why I don't agree with disquaifying felons from firearms ownership.
If you pay your debt to society, you're paid in full. end of story. If someone can't be trusted with full rights, then they probably still need to be in jail.

Ideally I agree. If they do something bad enough we can't trust them with a gun... execute them!

I knew a guy who had a felony because he did not pay child support after he was denied his legal right for child visitation by the mother. So he stopped paying until she said he could see his kid. Unknown to him Child Support over $1500 due is a felon in that state. He got jail time and a felon conviction and never got to see his child again.

Seems what we call a felony really needs to change or we need to change our laws. To me a felon should be reserved for a crime of violence with a victim. While you may deserve a nice bit of jail time for computer hacking, thats pretty ridiculous you can't own a gun.

 

[240 towles]

CHINESE Model 56 Siminov SKS black-powder muzzleloading rifle .50cal

WHY??

 

[Inigoes]

WHY??

You can load it with a 10 rd stripper clip!?!?

 

[CypherPunk]

This is a prime example of why I don't agree with disquaifying felons from firearms ownership.
If you pay your debt to society, you're paid in full. end of story. If someone can't be trusted with full rights, then they probably still need to be in jail.

How can they collect welfare, make political contributions and vote if the are still in jail?

 

[Biggfoot44]

Perhaps the situation Brian was thinking of is that while said replica Black Powder gun is not a firearm for the purposes of buying and possesing , etc , it IS included in the Statute for using firearm for a Crime of Violence.

 

[Jackalope]

Perhaps the situation Brian was thinking of is that while said replica Black Powder gun is not a firearm for the purposes of buying and possesing , etc , it IS included in the Statute for using firearm for a Crime of Violence.

Yuppers its considered the same as any weapon at that point if you're dumb enough to commit one.

 

[flyingblind]

From the quoted law above.

"Because an “antique firearm” is not a “firearm,” it would is lawful for a prohibited person to receive or possess black powder designed for use in an “antique firearm.” Also, the Federal explosives laws do not make it unlawful for a prohibited person to acquire and possess black powder in quantities not exceeding fifty pounds if it is intended to be used solely for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes in “antique firearms.” See 18 U.S.C. § 845(a)(5)"

Yes but I think if you possess all three required components (you need blackpowder, a precussion cap, and a projectile). What you have quoted refers to one of the three, I believe you can possess 2 of the three with no problem hence how 12 year olds use cap and ball revolvers for reenacting, the possess the powder charge and a cap, but for obvious reasons no bullet.