Father/Son transfer from PA to MD

[vette97]

My father wants to give me a .22 pistol he no longer wants. He's in PA and it's registered to him. I'm in MD and I won't accept it until I know what I need to do to transfer legally.

Since it's a father/son transfer, and a gift, has anyone done this or know if there is a special process? I think this came up a few months back but can't find it on the forum. Thanks!

 

[Drmsparks]

paging novus.......

 

[ChannelCat]

Since a pistol is what Maryland refers to as "regulated firearm" (along with those ugly looking military jobs), it must be transferred into the state via an FFL holder. The dealer will hang onto it while you fill the paperwork out and you wait the 7 days for the state to give you permission to excersise your rights. Novus can elaborate on this...

 

[trickg]

Since a pistol is what Maryland refers to as "regulated firearm" (along with those ugly looking military jobs), it must be transferred into the state via an FFL holder. The dealer will hang onto it while you fill the paperwork out and you wait the 7 days for the state to give you permission to excersise your rights. Novus can elaborate on this...

Negative - it depends upon the laws in the State of Pennsylvania. Are you sure it's "registered" to him? According to some quick research I did, there is no registration of handguns in PA.

In Nebraska, it's perfectly legal for a father to give any kind of regular gun (shotgun, rifle, handgun) to another member of the family with no paper shuffle. Likewise, there is no law that says that you have to put a handgun on the books in Maryland unless you purchase one. I inherited a number of handguns in Nebraska - essentially given to me by my Mom who was the initial beneficiary - and I legally brought them to Maryland without filling out any paperwork. It's simply not a law that you have to do so.

 

[eruby]

Sincethe father is a Pa resident (doesn't matter if the gun is registered to him or not, he owns it) and the son is a Md. resident, I'm pretty sure it will have to be transferred to a Md FFL first.

May be a different story if the gun was willed but even then, I don't think so.

 

[vette97]

Thanks for the quick replies! Sorry, didn't meant to say "registered" as PA doesn't have handgun registration. He complied with all laws and/or completed the proper paperwork when purchasing.

In PA, immediate family transfers (including between father/son) of handguns do not require any paperwork or FFL and are treated the same as long gun transfers. In fact, we did this when I still lived in PA several years ago.

Page 2 summarizes this: http://www.co.lancaster.pa.us/lanco/lib/lanco/CommonQuestionsAboutFirearms.pdf

 

[eruby]

Thanks for the quick replies! Sorry, didn't meant to say "registered" as PA doesn't have handgun registration. He complied with all laws and/or completed the proper paperwork when purchasing.

In PA, immediate family transfers (including between father/son) of handguns do not require any paperwork or FFL and are treated the same as long gun transfers. In fact, we did this when I still lived in PA several years ago.

Page 2 summarizes this: http://www.co.lancaster.pa.us/lanco/lib/lanco/CommonQuestionsAboutFirearms.pdf

Here in the People's Republic of Maryland, A father MAY be able to transfer to a son (both Md residents), but I doubt even that can be done without an FFL.

Not that I'm big on circumventing the law, but you could always the .22 was given to you while you still lived in Pa.

 

[vette97]

For MD law, I found this on http://www.mdgunsafety.com/mspfaq.htm

Can the transfer of a regulated firearm be conducted between two family members?
Yes, this type of transaction is considered a gift. The law stipulates, if the regulated firearm is a gift to the purchaser’s, spouse, parent, grandparent, grandchild, sibling, or child, the recipient shall:
(1) Complete an application to purchase or transfer a regulated firearm; and
(2) Forward the application to the Secretary of the State Police within 5 days after receipt of the regulated firearm.

Is there a fee when a transaction is considered a gift?
No, the fees are waived.

 

[novus collectus]

Residents of two different states so an FFL must be involved.

If a firearm is bequested (willed) or is an intestate secession (intestate, not interstate. I thin this means "next of kin" inheritance), then the feds allow interstate transfer without an FFL, but it depends on the state laws too.

In MD there is a possible gray area dealing with regulated inherited guns outside the state to a MD resident from what I gather, but within MD a regulated (handguns and some riffles and shotguns) firearm someone inherits there is a process that is less stringent than with a purchase.

As already stated by others, your father should send it to an FFL for transfer to you. YOu have to fill out the application, pay the transfer fee and the state fee, wait at least seven days, then pick it up.

If both you and your father lived in MD, then the process not as involved as this, but because you are in two different states, the federal law applies and you have to go through a MD regulated dealer.

By the way, it is possible to be a dual resident. If you still have a place in PA and you occasionally reside there (like a summer home for instance), then while residing there, you can transfer as a PA resident according to fed law.

 

[novus collectus]

For MD law, I found this on http://www.mdgunsafety.com/mspfaq.htm

Can the transfer of a regulated firearm be conducted between two family members?
Yes, this type of transaction is considered a gift. The law stipulates, if the regulated firearm is a gift to the purchaser’s, spouse, parent, grandparent, grandchild, sibling, or child, the recipient shall:
(1) Complete an application to purchase or transfer a regulated firearm; and
(2) Forward the application to the Secretary of the State Police within 5 days after receipt of the regulated firearm.

Is there a fee when a transaction is considered a gift?
No, the fees are waived.

But because of state lines are involved, it has to go through an FFL.

 

[eruby]

vette97 - you sure that .22 wasn't a going away present while you still lived in Pa and were moving to Md.?

 

[vette97]

Thanks very much for the most recent replies. I'm assuming it's federal law regarding the interstate transfer that is requiring this to go through an FFL, which makes sense.

I've decided I'm going to just turn down the gift. The gun isn't worth the work. I'll explain: My father is blind and bed ridden, which happened due to a recent accident, and the reason he no longer wants the pistol. So, I'd be the one driving to PA, taking it to a FFL in PA along with his power of attorney to have it shipped to an FFL in MD and then I'd be picking it up. It's just not worth it for an old .22LR revolver. Thanks all!

 

[novus collectus]

Thanks very much for the most recent replies. I'm assuming it's federal law regarding the interstate transfer that is requiring this to go through an FFL, which makes sense.

I've decided I'm going to just turn down the gift. The gun isn't worth the work. I'll explain: My father is blind and bed ridden, which happened due to a recent accident, and the reason he no longer wants the pistol. So, I'd be the one driving to PA, taking it to a FFL in PA along with his power of attorney to have it shipped to an FFL in MD and then I'd be picking it up. It's just not worth it for an old .22LR revolver. Thanks all!

It is not necessary to have a PA FFL ship it to a MD FFL, but from what I understand some MD FFLs will ask for this to be done anyway because it is a PITA when people send them a firearm without a copy of their ID (the FFL is required to record who gave them the firearm too).
If you can find an understanding MD dealer, you can have the handgun shipped directly to them from your father from what I understand.

By the way, even a blind man can use a gun for home defense.

[ll]25c_1193512372[/ll]

By the way again, remember if you maintain a residence at your father's place and you stay (reside) there on occasion, then technically you are a dual resident as I understand it.

I am not a lawyer.

 

[trickg]

Novus, I don't think that is accurate and I don't believe an FFL must be involved. For instance, let's say that while my Dad was still alive and I was living as a resident in Maryland, had he wanted to give me a handgun while I was visiting him in Nebraska. Since there are no laws that dictate that paperwork must be completed or filed for a parent to give a gun to their child who is of age to own, the the gun becomes mine free and clear in Nebraska and I can legally bring it to the state of Maryland. The ONLY time an FFL needs to become involved is if it's an NFA/Class III firearm or if the firearm is purchased.

If Vette97 as the son takes possession of the gun in Pennsylvania as the son and if no paperwork is required for that transaction, then he can legally take the gun to Maryland since there is no registration or any other paperwork required in Maryland unless the handgun is being purchased. If you can find and post links to supporting documentation that refutes that, great, but otherwise the laws of the state of Pennsylvania prevail, regardless of the state of residency of the recipient if the recipient is the child of the gun owner.

 

[trickg]

Thanks very much for the most recent replies. I'm assuming it's federal law regarding the interstate transfer that is requiring this to go through an FFL, which makes sense.

I've decided I'm going to just turn down the gift. The gun isn't worth the work. I'll explain: My father is blind and bed ridden, which happened due to a recent accident, and the reason he no longer wants the pistol. So, I'd be the one driving to PA, taking it to a FFL in PA along with his power of attorney to have it shipped to an FFL in MD and then I'd be picking it up. It's just not worth it for an old .22LR revolver. Thanks all!

Look - if the gun becomes legally yours in PA due to being gifted to you by your father, there is NO LAW in Maryland that says it must be transferred to you by an FFL. As long as you are adhering to the laws of PA when the gun becomes yours, you can quite legally bring it to Maryland in your car - there is a federal provision that states that you can legally transfer a gun from anyplace in the country where it is legal to own a gun (handgun, rifle or shotgun - it doesn't matter) to any other place where it is legal to own a gun. It is legal to own a handgun in Maryland and you do not need to register it if it already legally belongs to you due to being given to you - father to son - in the state of PA.

 

[novus collectus]

Novus, I don't think that is accurate and I don't believe an FFL must be involved. For instance, let's say that while my Dad was still alive and I was living as a resident in Maryland, had he wanted to give me a handgun while I was visiting him in Nebraska. Since there are no laws that dictate that paperwork must be completed or filed for a parent to give a gun to their child who is of age to own, the the gun becomes mine free and clear in Nebraska and I can legally bring it to the state of Maryland. The ONLY time an FFL needs to become involved is if it's an NFA/Class III firearm or if the firearm is purchased.

If Vette97 as the son takes possession of the gun in Pennsylvania as the son and if no paperwork is required for that transaction, then he can legally take the gun to Maryland since there is no registration or any other paperwork required in Maryland unless the handgun is being purchased. If you can find and post links to supporting documentation that refutes that, great, but otherwise the laws of the state of Pennsylvania prevail, regardless of the state of residency of the recipient if the recipient is the child of the gun owner.

§ 478.29 Out-of-State acquisition of
firearms by nonlicensees.
No person, other than a licensed importer,
licensed manufacturer, licensed
dealer, or licensed collector, shall transport
into or receive in the State where the
person resides (or if a corporation or other
business entity, where it maintains a place
of business) any firearm purchased or
otherwise obtained by such person outside
that State: Provided, That the provisions
of this section:
(a) Shall not preclude any person who
lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or
intestate succession in a State other than
his State of residence from transporting
the firearm into or receiving it in that State,
if it is lawful for such person to purchase
or possess such firearm in that State,
(b) Shall not apply to the transportation
or receipt of a rifle or shotgun obtained
from a licensed manufacturer, licensed
importer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector
in a State other than the transferee's
State of residence in an over-the-counter
transaction at the licensee's premises
obtained in conformity with the provisions
of § 478.96(c) and
(c) Shall not apply to the transportation
or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity
with the provisions of §§ 478.30 and
478.97.

§ 478.29a Acquisition of firearms by
nonresidents.
No person, other than a licensed importer,
licensed manufacturer, licensed
dealer, or licensed collector, who does not
reside in any State shall receive any firearms
unless such receipt is for lawful
sporting purposes.
§ 478.30 Out-of-State disposition of
firearms by nonlicensees.
No nonlicensee shall transfer, sell,
trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm
to any other nonlicensee, who the
transferor knows or has reasonable cause
to believe does not reside in (or if the person
is a corporation or other business
entity, does not maintain a place of business
in) the State in which the transferor
resides: Provided, That the provisions of
this section:
(a) shall not apply to the transfer,
transportation, or delivery of a firearm
made to carry out a bequest of a firearm
to, or any acquisition by intestate succession
of a firearm by, a person who is permitted
to acquire or possess a firearm
under the laws of the State of his residence;
and
(b) shall not apply to the loan or rental
of a firearm to any person for temporary
use for lawful sporting purposes.

http://www.atf.treas.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/2005/p53004/27cfr_part478.pdf

Bequest or inheritance is allowed accros state lines without an FFL, but ALL other transfers between two residents not of the same state requires an FFL. There is no exception made for family members I can see.

If, while you were visiting your dad in Nebraska, you maintained a residence there and you were residing there for that period of time (even just a weekend), then you were both Nebraska residence even though you are also a MD resident. That is when fed law does not have to do with the transfer and Nebraska law does.

 

[trickg]

http://www.atf.treas.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/2005/p53004/27cfr_part478.pdf

Bequest or inheritance is allowed accros state lines without an FFL, but ALL other transfers between two residents not of the same state requires an FFL. There is no exception made for family members I can see.

If, while you were visiting your dad in Nebraska, you maintained a residence there and you were residing there for that period of time (even just a weekend), then you were both Nebraska residence even though you are also a MD resident. That is when fed law does not have to do with the transfer and Nebraska law does.

Well, that could be - as I said, you have to adhere to the laws of the state of PA, however, if the transfer is legally made in PA, then MD doesn't have to know about it as far as I know.

My situation was a bit different since I inherited mine, but as I understood the Nebraska state law, a handgun could be given as a gift from father to son without paperwork.

IMO, it is worth it to get the gun - it's really only a small paper shuffle, but if he doesn't want it, that's up to him.

 

[novus collectus]

Heh! I just thought of something important. Op did not say if the .22 was modern gun or if it is an antique. Antiques are unregulated at both the state and federal level.

vette97, is the revoler made before 1899? If so, then as far as MD and the feds are concerned, it is no different than a hammer.

 

[vette97]

No sir, it's not an antique.

 

[novus collectus]

No sir, it's not an antique.

Do you have a C&R FFL yet and is it more than fifty years old?