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  • Chat-Bot

    Disinformation Governor
    Oct 17, 2020
    4,685
    под скалой
    AtlasShrugged_Pulls108.web.jpg
     

    Jub

    Member
    Oct 23, 2020
    13
    How do I put this...

    We need Trump, "without the Trump." What I mean is, he had a lot of good policies. Policies that even the incoming administration is going to continue with, even though they'll never give Trump credit. Policies that I really agreed with.

    The problem was Trump's personal baggage. Trump didn't just "speak his mind" (which is laudable, BTW) he was crass and at times, inarticulate. He spoke in circles. He was petty at times. His obsession with Twitter was part of his undoing. Let's face it, sometimes he was openly dishonest. He did not disavow white supremacy forcefully enough early in his administration. As a result, the left hammered him morning, noon and night over it for 4 years.

    We need someone with Trump's policies, who can out maneuver, out argue and discredit all the mud that Progressives usually sling at conservatives. The "racism" tag, the "old rich white male" tag, the "sucking up to big business" tag. We need someone who can make the media look like the gibbering morons that they are, rather than just slinging poop back and forth.

    Trump actually crushed the Left with the ACB nomination. No one could touch her at her hearings. No false sex assault narratives. She adopted children of color. Her education credentials were impeccable. She's brilliant. The media tried, but failed miserably to make Coney-Barrett look like a bad person and they failed.

    These are the kinds of victories we need. We need a person who can deliver them. I have no names or personalities in my head, I'm just saying that this is what we need.

    We need to convey the message that freedom and self-determination are not "racist" or any other "ist" and that this is better way to live than having the government making you comfortable in your poverty through socialism.

    Pretty well agreed. My biggest criticism, from a purely policy perspective, is the cheering on of economic numbers without being principled. By that, I mean, pressuring to lower interest rates and all forms of "compromise" leading to increasing government spending for the sake of blowing up macro numbers. I think it's hypocritical for "conservatives" to cheer it on. Sadly, most people do not seem to understand that whether they pay for it with taxes, inflation, or other countries finally calling our debt, they pay for it. Worst case scenario is if the dollar destabilizes and loses its reserve currency status. Goodbye consumerism...

    I'll also agree with the ACB thing being awesome feeling to beat them at their home field, so to speak. That being said, I think it's sad that the perspective of her has to revolve around identity politics. I've always hated it but grow increasingly more resentful and am beginning to denounce anything that remotely sounds like identity politics. Though every once in a while conservatives can get a victory in that realm, they will not win that war. The perception and vast majority of the media apparatus will make it impossible. It's a stupid fight and I think nobody wins in the end but we'll all get torn down trying. I disagree that we need more victories of the sort. I think if you play that stupid game, you will win a stupid prize. The conversations need to stop being framed around identity politics. The tribalism is so divisive and needs a clear, rational dismantling of why it is crap. Blowing up and getting angry over it just re-enforces their ideas that you're an "ist". Have you ever been convinced of anything by someone yelling at you and calling you dumb? I think that's often how the conservative argument sounds against identity politics... emotionally driven calling the other side dumb. Even if my arguments have been dumb, a random person will not usually be able to convince me of that by getting emotional and telling me I'm dumb. Some close friends or someone explaining rationally why my opinion is stupid might get somewhere.

    I also think that Trump's bombastic nature made him a hero to those who agreed with most of his ideas. The other side of that is that it made him easy to caricature to those who do not. I hate that the denouncing of white supremacy was as much of a stink as it was and the full quote has him denounce it. However, he should have calmly dismantled it and repeated the exact sentence he said prior to the circulated clip. He easily could have thrown it in their face and called them fake news if he did not play into the caricature of himself. With that example, I really think that Trump is a liability to anyone who believes in conservative policy. Whether you like him or not, he is too polarizing and bombastic of a figure. Though it was already on the rise, he has accelerated the movement of the mainstream to the left and made the extremes way more extreme and empowered. They even voted for and rallied behind an old white guy to spite the orange one.

    Conservativism needs to go back to being principled and not reactionary/spiteful of the other side. Selling personal responsibility is harder than selling handouts but it does resonate more than the MSM would have you believe. I'd evidence that with the rise of conservative podcasts/alternate media over the last few years. The rise of Jordan Peterson clearly demonstrates a need and resonance with that message. Those things are re-assuring. I think conservatives need to do a better job explaining their positions rather than just shutting down the other side.

    The left is good at proposing solutions to things like the rising costs in healthcare. Their solution is obvious where the conservative stance is much more complicated and usually sounds like the boot straps argument.. From an optics perspective, it looks like conservatives don't give a crap or even acknowledge there is a problem. They just come off looking like budget hawks who don't want to pay for the downtrodden's healthcare. The MSM has demonized caring about the budget as being greedy but fails to realize that the strong dollar is what empowers our ability to do anything. Caring about the budget is caring about the golden goose to lay future eggs but is mistaken for trying to hoard the current ones. I think the left largely misses the golden goose in the room entirely, only seeing its eggs, and then getting mad that they're not distributed evenly.
     
    Last edited:

    Bob A

    όυ φροντισ
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    31,252
    Well played, Sir. But I’m not appeasing anyone, here. There is a Republican Party outside of Trump. I’m just suggesting we don’t further marginalize ourselves by isolating ourselves in a vortex of self reinforcing narrative. The GOP (my party) just got hammered, and we ought to be able to understand why. Trump’s behavior in Georgia was just goofy and cost us the Senate. We lost the White House and the Senate because of Trump’s failures. Trump was great on 2A, but little else. Meanwhile, Hogan Governed like a real public servant in Maryland, and has saved lives here as a result. Nobody’s confiscating our guns (IMO) because America has bigger problems right now.

    The Republicans outside of Trump did nothing to promote a conservative agenda.

    Personally, I have no party. I vote for those who support what I feel is right and proper. There are no longer very many of those legislators around.

    Vote fraud cost us the Senate, and the Presidency.

    Trump was just OK on 2A. ahe excelled in putting America back to work, on keeping the lid on foreign aggression, on Israel (finally bringing the embassy to Jerusalem, after a generation of lily-livered appeasers defaulted), on bringing capital back into the country, on making us energy-independent, on motivating the electorate with MAGA, on alerting thr world to COVID in the absence of leadership from the corrupt WHO, on securing the borders against illegal immigration and infiltration of would-be terrorists and "caravans" of Soros-funded young men of MS-13 persuasion, and in bringing Black and Hispanic voters into the party.

    Hogan is no public servant, he's at best a neutral presence and at worst a ham-handed tyrant wannabe. Given what he's working against in this pathetic gerrymandered crypto-communist state, he could have been worse. I'll give him that.

    The bigger problems that America has at this time will be terminally exacerbated by the gun control measures that are definitely in the works. Those problems were aided and abetted, if not actually generated, by the actions and inactions of the Democratic Party.

    You think we have problems now? Wait a few months.
     

    Mr H

    Unincited Co-Conservative
    Here's some of what we're up against...

    Lefty Fishlips are giving Biden credit for the 13% run-up in the DJIA since the election. But, if you recall, the Trump people were denied similar credit in the gains made in his transition.
     

    Striper69

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 31, 2014
    1,400
    Iowa
    We are straying from the OP, here, but, briefly (a) Trump’s impulsive, defensive response to Covid prevented any coherent Federal approach was a huge failure and (b) so was his idea that we should isolate and marginalize ourselves and dismiss the news establishment as MSM because we might then rely on quotes from OAN and Breitbart. A full answer is really beyond the scope of what we can do in this thread.

    Any COVID failure was not made by Trump but was by the medical community. They were woefully unprepared for it. All the "experts" contradicted each other and all made blind guesses about it and what to do about it. Trump was the Fall Guy for them.
     

    DanGuy48

    Ultimate Member
    The Republicans outside of Trump did nothing to promote a conservative agenda.

    Personally, I have no party. I vote for those who support what I feel is right and proper. There are no longer very many of those legislators around.

    Vote fraud cost us the Senate, and the Presidency.

    Trump was just OK on 2A. ahe excelled in putting America back to work, on keeping the lid on foreign aggression, on Israel (finally bringing the embassy to Jerusalem, after a generation of lily-livered appeasers defaulted), on bringing capital back into the country, on making us energy-independent, on motivating the electorate with MAGA, on alerting thr world to COVID in the absence of leadership from the corrupt WHO, on securing the borders against illegal immigration and infiltration of would-be terrorists and "caravans" of Soros-funded young men of MS-13 persuasion, and in bringing Black and Hispanic voters into the party.

    Hogan is no public servant, he's at best a neutral presence and at worst a ham-handed tyrant wannabe. Given what he's working against in this pathetic gerrymandered crypto-communist state, he could have been worse. I'll give him that.

    The bigger problems that America has at this time will be terminally exacerbated by the gun control measures that are definitely in the works. Those problems were aided and abetted, if not actually generated, by the actions and inactions of the Democratic Party.

    You think we have problems now? Wait a few months.

    X2 for every word of that.
     

    Alea Jacta Est

    Extinguished member
    MDS Supporter
    Pretty well agreed. My biggest criticism, from a purely policy perspective, is the cheering on of economic numbers without being principled. By that, I mean, pressuring to lower interest rates and all forms of "compromise" leading to increasing government spending for the sake of blowing up macro numbers. I think it's hypocritical for "conservatives" to cheer it on. Sadly, most people do not seem to understand that whether they pay for it with taxes, inflation, or other countries finally calling our debt, they pay for it. Worst case scenario is if the dollar destabilizes and loses its reserve currency status. Goodbye consumerism...

    I'll also agree with the ACB thing being awesome feeling to beat them at their home field, so to speak. That being said, I think it's sad that the perspective of her has to revolve around identity politics. I've always hated it but grow increasingly more resentful and am beginning to denounce anything that remotely sounds like identity politics. Though every once in a while conservatives can get a victory in that realm, they will not win that war. The perception and vast majority of the media apparatus will make it impossible. It's a stupid fight and I think nobody wins in the end but we'll all get torn down trying. I disagree that we need more victories of the sort. I think if you play that stupid game, you will win a stupid prize. The conversations need to stop being framed around identity politics. The tribalism is so divisive and needs a clear, rational dismantling of why it is crap. Blowing up and getting angry over it just re-enforces their ideas that you're an "ist". Have you ever been convinced of anything by someone yelling at you and calling you dumb? I think that's often how the conservative argument sounds against identity politics... emotionally driven calling the other side dumb. Even if my arguments have been dumb, a random person will not usually be able to convince me of that by getting emotional and telling me I'm dumb. Some close friends or someone explaining rationally why my opinion is stupid might get somewhere.

    I also think that Trump's bombastic nature made him a hero to those who agreed with most of his ideas. The other side of that is that it made him easy to caricature to those who do not. I hate that the denouncing of white supremacy was as much of a stink as it was and the full quote has him denounce it. However, he should have calmly dismantled it and repeated the exact sentence he said prior to the circulated clip. He easily could have thrown it in their face and called them fake news if he did not play into the caricature of himself. With that example, I really think that Trump is a liability to anyone who believes in conservative policy. Whether you like him or not, he is too polarizing and bombastic of a figure. Though it was already on the rise, he has accelerated the movement of the mainstream to the left and made the extremes way more extreme and empowered. They even voted for and rallied behind an old white guy to spite the orange one.

    Conservativism needs to go back to being principled and not reactionary/spiteful of the other side. Selling personal responsibility is harder than selling handouts but it does resonate more than the MSM would have you believe. I'd evidence that with the rise of conservative podcasts/alternate media over the last few years. The rise of Jordan Peterson clearly demonstrates a need and resonance with that message. Those things are re-assuring. I think conservatives need to do a better job explaining their positions rather than just shutting down the other side.

    The left is good at proposing solutions to things like the rising costs in healthcare. Their solution is obvious where the conservative stance is much more complicated and usually sounds like the boot straps argument.. From an optics perspective, it looks like conservatives don't give a crap or even acknowledge there is a problem. They just come off looking like budget hawks who don't want to pay for the downtrodden's healthcare. The MSM has demonized caring about the budget as being greedy but fails to realize that the strong dollar is what empowers our ability to do anything. Caring about the budget is caring about the golden goose to lay future eggs but is mistaken for trying to hoard the current ones. I think the left largely misses the golden goose in the room entirely, only seeing its eggs, and then getting mad that they're not distributed evenly.
    Don’t know you.

    Never saw one of your previous five posts.

    Don’t know how, if or where you were educated. ...doesn’t make any difference in the big scheme.

    That’s one helluva well reasoned and damned well delivered post... perhaps the best I’ve ever seen on MDS. Certainly is here recently.

    You should post more often.

    BZ. My hat is off to you.
     

    Patent Guy

    Rifleman
    Sep 1, 2010
    63
    AA County
    Let's get back to work, they've begun again...

    One would have hoped that he would take a stronger stance in his 2nd term when he had political capital to spend. Bummer.

    Almost all politics is local. Other threads on this forum provide a detailed record on what has happened with each new gun control bill in the MD Senate over the years, and that is where we can ALL use our Constitutional rights and participate lawfully as citizens to protect our 2A rights. Many of us have been active in this fight for years. We lost on SB281 but have prevailed on many others (and Hogan did help us). The struggle never ends. Anyone who wants to dig in and work against this year's batch of goofy new gun control bills Bills can start here: https://2amaryland.org/legislative-information/bill-tracker/
     

    Tanner22

    Member
    Jan 9, 2021
    9
    Taylorsville
    That man in the video had some words of wisdom, MONTHS before the election took place .He called it like it played out. Is the rest going to happen as he predicts? Time will tell.
     

    PowPow

    Where's the beef?
    Nov 22, 2012
    4,715
    Howard County
    Listen to this:



    That man in the video had some words of wisdom, MONTHS before the election took place .He called it like it played out. Is the rest going to happen as he predicts? Time will tell.

    There is a reason that we can't find primers and powder to buy (and loaded ammo is scarce and super pricey). Wisdom like his may be the reason. And a bit of profiteering and panic thrown in for good measure.
     

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