Enfield shopping advice.

[mawkie]

Funny! I just left you a PM before toodling over here to check threads. You did fine. Both of the SMLEs Brian had were solid and priced fairly. Would have loved to run a patch down the bore and give it a good look as there was a lot of grease, as you noted. Most of the time that's a good thing and I'll bet the bore turned out to be just fine.
BTW, spectacular in a SMLE will set you back 2-3 X what you paid for this one. So for dipping a toe into the Enfield world you could have done much, much worse. Good job!
The only thing that caught my eye that day was the French 1935S that Brian had. Been looking for a SAGEM built example with original enamel paint finish. His price was good but I've been hunting for one with more finish left on it. Still, took his card in case I change my mind and it's still available after the weekend. I've got some other irons in the fire, have to see how it all shakes out.

 

[Vile Shadow]

Looks to me like that date stamp says "1918".

 

[Art3]

Funny! I just left you a PM before toodling over here to check threads. You did fine. Both of the SMLEs Brian had were solid and priced fairly. Would have loved to run a patch down the bore and give it a good look as there was a lot of grease, as you noted. Most of the time that's a good thing and I'll bet the bore turned out to be just fine.
BTW, spectacular in a SMLE will set you back 2-3 X what you paid for this one. So for dipping a toe into the Enfield world you could have done much, much worse. Good job!
The only thing that caught my eye that day was the French 1935S that Brian had. Been looking for a SAGEM built example with original enamel paint finish. His price was good but I've been hunting for one with more finish left on it. Still, took his card in case I change my mind and it's still available after the weekend. I've got some other irons in the fire, have to see how it all shakes out.

I know I may have jumped the gun a little bit, but I still feel good about it. My previous milsurp quests have been '03, M1917, and Garand, all of which seem to command higher prices than Enfields. I went Enfield shopping with Springfield money on my mind and in my pocket, and got really excited when I saw the prices.

South Carroll let me pull the bolts on both rifles, and through the grease I could at least tell that there weren't missing sections of rifling. I know grease and crud can hide pitting, but I didn't see anything obvious and was willing to gamble. I am going to start the dissassembly and degreasing in between my chores today. Last night I ran some Ballistol through the barrel to soak, then brushed and wiped it this morning. Darn if there isn't continuous rifling allllll the way through It still needs some scrubbing, but I'm even more confident that I'm not going to find any serious pitting.

Speaking of degreasing, what would be a good product to use on the wood? I do not want to strip it down to refinish (yet...or possibly ever), but I would like to get a layer or two of crud and grease off of it. My wife thought maybe Murphy's Oil soap?

The unusual engraving you mentioned in your pm, was something it circular on the barrel just in front of the reciever (or maybe on the receiver...I don't remember exactly)? I saw that and thought it was a little odd...maybe an import mark? It was very fine detail that I couldn't make out (not that I'd really know what I was looking at anyway), but it did not seem "Britishy" like the other marks I'd seen. I chose the other rifle anyway

 

[Art3]

Looks to me like that date stamp says "1918".

You are correct, sir: 1918. So there's a chance she maybe saw part of the Great War? It's funny, it is much easier to see in the pic than the naked eye...I guess the flash brings it out. I may take pics of any other hard to read markings to see if it is any clearer.

 

[bbrown]

You are correct, sir: 1918. So there's a chance she maybe saw part of the Great War? It's funny, it is much easier to see in the pic than the naked eye...I guess the flash brings it out. I may take pics of any other hard to read markings to see if it is any clearer.

Chalk helps to make the markings easier to read, and it's easily removed.

 

[mawkie]

One of the two I looked at had an engraved SN on the bolt, the other was hand stamped. Both force matched. With a 1918 date and the war ending on 11/11/18 I'd say there was an excellent chance it was at least issued if not fielded in the Great War. IMHO, if you want a shooter look for a peace-time example. No wartime production pressures so they tend to be better built. Some of the most beautiful Enfields are the Canadian Longbranch arsenal examples from the late 40s and early 50s. Simply stunning.

 

[SKIP]

Some of the most beautiful Enfields are the Canadian Longbranch arsenal examples from the late 40s and early 50s. Simply stunning.

Like this one.

 

[CasualObserver]

One of the two I looked at had an engraved SN on the bolt, the other was hand stamped. Both force matched. With a 1918 date and the war ending on 11/11/18 I'd say there was an excellent chance it was at least issued if not fielded in the Great War. IMHO, if you want a shooter look for a peace-time example. No wartime production pressures so they tend to be better built. Some of the most beautiful Enfields are the Canadian Longbranch arsenal examples from the late 40s and early 50s. Simply stunning.

You are so right about the Longbranch ones. The one I have not only looks good, it shoots quite well as well. I happened on the receipt for the one I have the other day while looking for some other paperwork. Cost me all of 44 bucks. Man those were the days.

OP, congrats on you purchase. Hope you enjoy it. Definitely don't refinish the stock. If you struggle with degreasing it, let us know and I'm sure folks will have plenty of suggestions (I personally use tung oil thinned with mineral sprit's after sweating out the cosmo on a nice warm day.)

 

[Art3]

I wasn't able to spend as much time on it today as I had hoped, but we're making progress. I ran into a snag trying to get the buttstock off. There is something in the way of the screw, seemingly exactly like the issue in this unresolved thread: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/topic3997.html

It looks like a tiny flat head screw in a large washer. I cannot believe it is the buttstock screw, and am wondering if it is the cap for the oiler or something? It appears to be metal, so I really don't think it is the leather or felt washer they mentioned.



Has anybody run into this? The method of trying to turn the square end of the screw from the inside of the receiver as described in the thread seems dubious. I was thinking about trying to come up with one of those retrieval devices (magnet on a stick), but I suspect it is stuck in there pretty good. Maybe I need a long drill pit for a pilot hole, then thread in a muzzle loading bullet puller (a screw on the end of a ramrod) to try to yank it out?

Any ideas?

 

[Jimbob2.0]

Last night I saw one at the Bel Air gun show. It appeared to be in really good shape...almost too good? The seller was selling it for someone else, so he didn't know much about it. Had I not known that there would be at least three at the HoCo show the following day, it may well have come home with me for $425. I know that looking good on the outside doesn't mean safe to shoot, and, out of principle, it just didn't seem right to buy the very first one I picked up. Besides...if I struck out at HoCo, it may still have been at Bel Air (although it would cost me another $10 at the door...but that's another rant).

Mawkie said that he was going to be at HoCo in the morning and generously offered to check anything I found out there with me. I wasn't completely sure when I'd make it there, so I gave him my phone number in hopes that, if I didn't catch up with him, he'd let me know if there was anything good there. That was a good plan, and I greatly appreciate all his help. I went through the show, checking my phone periodically and figured he didn't make it because I hadn't heard anything. Then, as we were on our way home at about 2pm, my phone lights up to tell me I have 2 new messages: One from Verizon telling me my bill was ready at noon, and one from Mawkie saying he was there at 10:46. That really sucks because we were there too. In addition to invaluable advice, it would have been cool to meet the man and the legend in person. I just don't get it.

Anyway...left to my own devices...I forced enough discipline to run through the entire show before buying this one from South Carroll for $350
View attachment 197386

It definitely shows wear and tear of nearly 100 years in service, but I'm AOK with that.
View attachment 197387
There is a lot of grease...I can't quite tell if it says 1919 or 1918. I'm pretty sure that round dent in the wood direcly above the trigger is from the safety screw of another rifle that was stacked on top of that I don't mind it one bit. I think after a thorough degreasing, it is going to have about the same well earned patina that my '03 carries. Other than dressing up a few chewed on screw heads, the only change I might make is the buttstock. As you can see it doesn't match the rest of the wood (although the camera flash really brings that out more so than in person). It has a small repair to it and a few hairline cracks (though none in the wrist...I don't think it's going to be a real problem unless I have to bash a Turk or Austro-Hungarian with it, which...well...one should always be prepared for anything )

Because it came in under what I figured was my budget, I overpaid a little for a box of ammo just so I could do this:
View attachment 197388
It may not be spectacular, but at least it didn't run all the way in to the case.

I've got a good bit of degreasing to do, but overall I am very satisfied. I even have a couple of bucks left in my pocket...it may be the beginnings of a No.4 fund

I think you did very well. The bullet test isn't really reliable given the variability of diameter of current loads vs original loads etc. Even an expert has a hard time telling between a 1,2, 3 etc. If it doesn't swallow the bullet down to brass you are generally ok.

With an Enfield the bolt number is probably more significant. 0,1,2 ok even new rifles may have these.

 

[Clovis]

I wasn't able to spend as much time on it today as I had hoped, but we're making progress. I ran into a snag trying to get the buttstock off. There is something in the way of the screw, seemingly exactly like the issue in this unresolved thread: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/topic3997.html

It looks like a tiny flat head screw in a large washer. I cannot believe it is the buttstock screw, and am wondering if it is the cap for the oiler or something? It appears to be metal, so I really don't think it is the leather or felt washer they mentioned.

View attachment 197494

Has anybody run into this? The method of trying to turn the square end of the screw from the inside of the receiver as described in the thread seems dubious. I was thinking about trying to come up with one of those retrieval devices (magnet on a stick), but I suspect it is stuck in there pretty good. Maybe I need a long drill pit for a pilot hole, then thread in a muzzle loading bullet puller (a screw on the end of a ramrod) to try to yank it out?

Any ideas?

The fiber/leather washer will get stiff with age. Have you tried a bent coat hanger as suggested in the thread you linked to? It can be tricky as you need to get the hook you form into the screw head slot and then slide it under the washer. Of course, in the span of nearly a hundred years some one could have put something in there. In reading the thread you linked I hope you took off the fore end first as many when they don't follow that procedure with a #1 have damaged the fore end.
Good luck, let us know what you find.

 

[mawkie]

OK here we go...
1.) You must remove forestock BEFORE removing butt stock! Remove the butt stock first and you can damage the forestock.
2.) Remove leather washer in butt stock. This was designed to keep oiler in butt stock from rattling on butt stock screw. As mentioned by clovis a coat hanger is a good place to start to hook and remove it.
3.) Now you can remove the butt stock. You'll need a stout straight blade screwdriver. I have one with a square shank so I can attach a wrench to it for additional torque. These screws can be tight sometimes.

Take care, it's easy to damage the draws on the forestock of a 100 yr old stick of wood, rendering it useless for shooting. If you're just looking to degrease I also use the method that CasualObserver recommends. Put it in a black plastic bag and then out into the sun for heat. It'll "sweat" the crud out of the furniture. Better than taking chemicals to it. I use raw linseed oil thinned with mineral spirits to re-oil the stock. Without drying agents the raw linseed oil has plenty of time to penetrate deep into the wood.

 

[jimbobborg]

Just going to point out that if you had Springfield money you should have gotten a matching bayonet and sling.

 

[Art3]

Thanks to YouTube, I knew to take the forend off first. I was a little worried because some of the screws were pretty chewed up (even before I got to them ), but it all went smoothly.

That leather washer really foolied me good! I poked and scraped at it with a cleaning rod...it felt and sounded like tin. I would have almost bet money on it! Last night I squirted some Ballistol down in there because...why not? (I put that stuff on everything!). Today when I poked at it, it felt softer...kinda like...old leather...soaked in Ballistol. I used my bullet puller to get it out. It was still really tight. I think a coat hanger would have been a struggle.

Now I just have to find a big square shanked screw driver...that is about an inch longer than the one I had planned to use


Will the solar sweating out of crud technique work when it is cold out? Would a hair dryer work? Or maybe stand it up near the woodstove (closely monitored, of course!)?

 

[Art3]

Just going to point out that if you had Springfield money you should have gotten a matching bayonet and sling.

You are correct that these are important accessories...but for my purposes, ammo first! This is a whole new caliber that I need to start hoarding

 

[bbrown]

Now I just have to find a big square shanked screw driver...that is about an inch longer than the one I had planned to use :rolleyes

Back in the dark ages of Enfield collecting, some folks were known to use extra long tire irons.

 

[Art3]

Back in the dark ages of Enfield collecting, some folks were known to use extra long tire irons.

Now why didn't I think of that! After rooting around my workshop, I resigned myself to the fact that the buttstock was not coming off tonight The tire iron that I know I could lay my hands on has too much of a hubcap hook on the end of it, but I'm sure I have another one laying around in a junk pile somewhere...

 

[Art3]

Well....I came home with a big freakin' screw driver from Home Depot ($9 and Made in USA, what's not to like about that?) and the buttstock came off without a problem. That left me with a bunch of wood pieces that needed delicate and careful degreasing and a pile of metal pieces that were just begging for...other methods...

So now I'm waiting for the wife to come home. I'm going to meet her at the door and say, "My Love, just remember that you love me, despite what you may see, step in, or smell in this house. Something happened today involving my rifle, the bathtub and a whole lot of hot water and paper towels that is never going to happen again."

 

[Clovis]

Well, this collecting experience went south in a hurry...Valentines Day around your place ought to be epic.

 

[Jimbob2.0]

Like this one.

Love it I have a gap in my collection for a LongBranch