Elk Neck

[Kim79]

Nope cause the day we shot together we were shooting pistol on the pistol range.

And how did that work out? We both packed up and left..Ive NEVER had to do that with the older guys on the Rifle range

And there was a written rule being deviated from!

 

[3rdRcn]

Ive always talked to the other shooters on the range and noone has ever had problems with me shooting a handgun on the rifle range. As a matter of fact, Ive had other peoples wives shooting my handgun on the rifle range.. Maybe Ive just been lucky to shoot with seasoned shooters..

I guess you didn't read my post about why you shouldn't shoot a short barreled pistol on the rifle range, an experienced shooter would know that you shouldn't do this out of concerns for safety as well as the equipment. However, a lazy shooter will disregard the damage to the facility as well as the danger of a round ricocheting well short of the berm and possibly escaping the range. Please continue to shoot with your "seasoned" shooters and I'll stay with my safe ones.

 

[Dead Eye]

I guess you didn't read my post about why you shouldn't shoot a short barreled pistol on the rifle range, an experienced shooter would know that you shouldn't do this out of concerns for safety as well as the equipment. However, a lazy shooter will disregard the damage to the facility as well as the danger of a round ricocheting well short of the berm and possibly escaping the range. Please continue to shoot with your "seasoned" shooters and I'll stay with my safe ones.

3rdRcn, I don't know of these "seasoned" shooters, for which Kim speaks. Perhaps they are personal friends, or old guys that dig chicks, but I can assure you she does not speak for the entire community at ENSF. She's merely trying to mask her laziness.

 

[3rdRcn]

3rdRcn, I don't know of these "seasoned" shooters, for which Kim speaks. Perhaps they are personal friends, or old guys that dig chicks, but I can assure you she does not speak for the entire community at ENSF. She's merely trying to mask her laziness.

I am well aware of this as I was the coordinator of the RSO program at Elk Neck and once you explain the basic safety reasons for not shooting a defensive handgun on a rifle range most people understand this and comply with the common sense of the rule.

 

[Dead Eye]

I am well aware of this as I was the coordinator of the RSO program at Elk Neck and once you explain the basic safety reasons for not shooting a defensive handgun on a rifle range most people understand this and comply with the common sense of the rule.

Now you've done it! You had to go and throw common sense in there...

 

[Kim79]

Kim.... DANG!!! Why are trying to defend the idefensible? An RSO just told you that the rules, written or otherwise implied, are what they are and yet you want to continue to argue this silly point. How about, "Wow, thanks for telling, because I didn't realize that"?

A RSO not a DNR employee.



I AM one of the older guys that shoots during the week. Fortunately, we haven't been there at the same time.



Read my post above, I have.



Huh?

The CDL quote was in referance to point about not shooting other people

 

[Kim79]

I am well aware of this as I was the coordinator of the RSO program at Elk Neck and once you explain the basic safety reasons for not shooting a defensive handgun on a rifle range most people understand this and comply with the common sense of the rule.

WHAT RULE?

 

[Kim79]

3rdRcn, I don't know of these "seasoned" shooters, for which Kim speaks. Perhaps they are personal friends, or old guys that dig chicks, but I can assure you she does not speak for the entire community at ENSF. She's merely trying to mask her laziness.

Maybe I should change "seasoned" to people who do it for a living IE LEO the Sheriff Deputies (someone should tell them in a memo as well)... There is no need to bring my sex into this, Im sorry if your an old guy that digs dudes but my sex has nothing to do with anything!! Yes masking my laziness. Dragging someones refuse that is bigger then me is lazy. Was it yours? Left behind while you were c hecking out the boys? Next time just tell me what truck Ill locad it up for ya

 

[ENSF]

All,

Please be advised, that our rules are clearly posted as they are. We installed two signs indicating "pistol" and "rifle" range. It is implied that you shoot the correct weapon on the correct range. As in the past, we are reluctant to install new or more rules as that is usually argued against or complaints follow.

We have always, since the 80's, allowed hunting type pistols on the rifle range provided that they are being shot at a distance greater than 25 yards.

These are the current regulations:

ELK NECK STATE FOREST
SHOOTING RANGE REGULATIONS

1. No automatic weapons.

2. Semi-automatic fire limited to one round per second.

3. Center of target must be minimum four (4) feet off of the ground.

4. Targets must be in direct line with the shooter to avoid cross fire and errant rounds.

5. Only paper targets may be used on pistol and rifle ranges.

6. All target stands must be removed from premises after use.

7. All hulls, brass, and spent cartridges must be picked up and removed.

8. No shot shells for patterning. Shot shells may only be used at the skeet area.

9. All targets must be free-standing. Targets must not be fastened to or leaned against baffles or support posts.

10. No shooting at baffles or supports posts.

11. A “cease fire” or line clear must be called prior to going down range. Mandatory “cease fires” will be called at 25 and 55 past each hour.

12. When shooters are down range, all firearms are to be unloaded and all breeches open. Firearms are not to be handled.

13. No loaded firearms behind or forward of shooting areas.

14. Alcohol and all other controlled dangerous substances are prohibited.

15. Pets are prohibited.

16. All shooters must have a valid range permit in possession, or have paid the daily admission.

17. Children must not be left unattended.

18. All shooting must be done in a safe manner and only at designated areas.

19. Annual Permit is valid from date of purchase through December 31 of the year issued.

20. Firearms are to remain at the firing line or in designated holders and may not be worn on person at any time on the way to or from the ranges, and during use of the ranges.

21. Clay targets are restricted to the Skeet Range.


If wee need to add more, we will do so at the end of the calendar year, which is generally when we make regulation changes. We are enforcing the rules as posted and we do take action on crossing over of weapons from one range to the other. We are trying not to over complicate the use of the range as it is open to persons from all walks of life and we would like them to have a safe shooting experience.

As far as the trash, none of you have said anything that we do not already know. If you doubt that, guess why the bathrooms were closed.

 

[jsl1106]

Phew.....take the evening off from here and lookie what has happened! Where to begin?

First- My whole point that I was making was simply to ask the question of how can you enforce a "rule" that is not posted so that all can know that they are violating said rule. Everything that has been brought up is a violation of the written and posted rules at the range. How about a Trooper giving someone a ticket for having a red car simply because his Sergeant stated that red cars are bad and need to be ticketed. That is called making a pet peave policy. So if it is so important to the safe conduct of the range then please put it in writing and make it official.

Second- I am not a ballistician nor do I claim to be one, but...... Explain to me how someone shooting a .45 acp handgun, at a target center placed at the prescribed 48" from the ground, possibly cause anymore damage to the baffles and other range structures then lets say a 12 ga. rifled slug or a .338 Lapua?

Third- I am not an official "NRA" RSO, but I've spent a little bit of time on firearms ranges during the past 28 years of my life. In all that time I don't think I have ever been called the names or infered to be some "Yahoo" or "Cowboy" by anyone. I did offer my assistance to the RSO program when it was first starting and was told that my certifications were not recognized and that I had to be an "NRA" certified RSO or Firearms Instructor (insert revered awe and silence here). Since I obviuosly was not of the caliber required to be in the program, I respectfully did not pursue it any further. With that being said, I apologize if I have hurt anyones ego or trampled on their self-worth issues that they are battling. But, in the same mindset, I did not resort to name calling or anything that shows the immaturity of the poster. I am a private person in my off time. None of you know me or my personal attributes nor do any of you know what my background is so I take a little offense to being lambasted for basically asking a simple question....."How can a rule be enforced if it is not official and posted for all to see?"

With that I bid you all a fond adieu!

 

[jsl1106]

"It is implied that you shoot the correct weapon on the correct range."

Boy, that would hold up in a lawsuit!

 

[Dead Eye]

"It is implied that you shoot the correct weapon on the correct range."

Boy, that would hold up in a lawsuit!

Is there a sign in the bathroom that says "Please pull your zipper up, after using the facilities"?

In legal terms, there are "implied" laws. It is these kinds of silly arguments that add to the litany of legal issues. What a waste.

 

[Dead Eye]

Maybe I should change "seasoned" to people who do it for a living IE LEO the Sheriff Deputies (someone should tell them in a memo as well)... There is no need to bring my sex into this, Im sorry if your an old guy that digs dudes but my sex has nothing to do with anything!! Yes masking my laziness. Dragging someones refuse that is bigger then me is lazy. Was it yours? Left behind while you were c hecking out the boys? Next time just tell me what truck Ill locad it up for ya

Twenty five (25) years in the US Army Reserves, Unit Small Arms Instructor, Range Safety Officer, Range NCOIC, training thousands of Soldiers on the proper useage and safety of operating every weapon system from: 9mm pistol, .45 cal. M1911 pistol, M-16A1 & 2 Automatic Assault Rifle, M-60 7.62 mm Machine Gun, M-2 .50 cal. Machine gun, Demolitions and Explosives Ranges, with not ONE (1) safety incident, but I have NO IDEA what the heck I am talking about...
Stick to the subject, please, which is your inability to properly follow (implied) range protocol. Who you choose to hang out with has no bearing on the issue.

 

[WSM]

Second- I am not a ballistician nor do I claim to be one, but...... Explain to me how someone shooting a .45 acp handgun, at a target center placed at the prescribed 48" from the ground, possibly cause anymore damage to the baffles and other range structures then lets say a 12 ga. rifled slug or a .338 Lapua?

As I have been told, the larger issue is bullet impact. Your bullets are going to impact halfway down range rather than into the berm. If you're bullets are not impacting the berm then they have a chance to leave the range and cause a safety issue.

 

[Dead Eye]

As I have been told, the larger issue is bullet impact. Your bullets are going to impact halfway down range rather than into the berm. If you're bullets are not impacting the berm then they have a chance to leave the range and cause a safety issue.

Thanks for reiterating that concept. It has already been explained by 3rdRcn, who said that "most people" will understand that if you explain it to them. It has been explained, yet "a few people" still want to debate the fact that the sign on one range says, "RIFLE RANGE", and the sign on the other says, "PISTOL RANGE".

Can I go into the "LADIES" room? Yes, I can, but I prefer to go to the "MEN'S" room because it just makes life easier. No one had to send me written rules or instructions.

 

[WSM]

Thanks for reiterating that concept. It has already been explained by 3rdRcn, who said that "most people" will understand that if you explain it to them. It has been explained, yet "a few people" still want to debate the fact that the sign on one range says, "RIFLE RANGE", and the sign on the other says, "PISTOL RANGE".

Can I go into the "LADIES" room? Yes, I can, but I prefer to go to the "MEN'S" room because it just makes life easier. No one had to send me written rules or instructions.

I just reread his post, didn't catch the "projectiles from leaving the range" part of it .

 

[tzoid]

It's painfully clear that we have a " Cool Hand Luke" -- Mexican stand-off Situation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2f-MZ2HRHQ

The ONLY thing that is acceptable to some people is if they get their way... Like having a special sign posted for them because they refuse to acknowlege an " Authority" Figure- ENSF DNR Officer Shawn Day.

I see you're a Federal Police.... I guess you carry every law around with you so you can show people in writting why you may be arresting them or writing them a citation or wahtever you do?

Unreal...

 

[Jeepflexin]

Maybe I should change "seasoned" to people who do it for a living IE LEO the Sheriff Deputies (someone should tell them in a memo as well)...

Hi Kim, your reference to LEO does not support that you are familiar with safe shooting practices, cops in general are easily the worst offenders of firearm safety that one could encounter. So you stating you shoot and learn from LEO's puts a flag up telling me you probably have not learned proper safe firearm habits. At least I would be very weary shooting around you until you proved otherwise. Now before any of the cops on the board get riled up i know that some of you are very safe shooters, I'm not talking about the exception, I'm talking about the rule. Just about every cop I know is aware of at least one guy in their dept or a neighboring department who has been injured at a range.

The simple fact is that the design of the rifle range firing line makes it less than ideal for shooting pistol. It further makes it easier to be unsafe, I'm not saying you can't be safe while doing it but it is simply easier to slip up is all. So not only are you not getting as good of a practice session in but you are endangering yourself and others by doing so.

FWIW there was a time where I felt you should be able to shoot pistol on the rifle side. I'm more knowledgeable about firearm safety now compared to then and understand the inherent problems with doing such. You seem like an intelligent person who cares about the sport overall so I can only suspect that if you simply think about it you will change your position as well. At least I hope so.

 

[Dead Eye]

FWIW there was a time where I felt you should be able to shoot pistol on the rifle side. I'm more knowledgeable about firearm safety now compared to then and understand the inherent problems with doing such. You seem like an intelligent person who cares about the sport overall so I can only suspect that if you simply think about it you will change your position as well. At least I hope so.

The "Voice of Reason" (Thank you!)

 

[Dead Eye]

I just reread his post, didn't catch the "projectiles from leaving the range" part of it .

No, it's O.K., I'm glad that you reiterated it. Really.