Elk Neck RSO Question

[rseymorejr]

If you shoot it like a pistol (1 or 2 hand grip), it goes on the pistol range. If you shoot it like a rifle (shouldering, VFG, etc) then it goes on the rifle range.

I think that if you shoot your AR pistol from the shoulder, like a rifle, you have more problems than deciding which range to use.
Doesn't that technically put you in the "unregistered short barreled rifle" category?

 

[Biggfoot44]

Without reopening the unanswerable debate regarding certain potential NFA issues with certain AR Pistol, I offer another perspect, that would work for me.

If YOU are keeping all your rounds on the paper, and having impacts that somewhat resemble a Group ? If yes, it is morally suitable to use 100yd range. If not, at least at present, then off to the short range for you.

 

[BossmanPJ]

If you shoot it like a pistol (1 or 2 hand grip), it goes on the pistol range. If you shoot it like a rifle (shouldering, VFG, etc) then it goes on the rifle range.

I have known many instances that this will get you thrown out. A rifle round belongs on the range that is designed for it. Doesn't matter if it is out of a firearm that is short or long. Last I can remember speaking to the RSO there, no rifle ammo is to be discharged on the pistol range.

OP, Your best bet Is to contact member ENSF and ask him directly. He is the ranger in charge of Elk Neck.

 

[Lloyd]

The RSO staff at Elk Neck are all volunteers. We are only 'scheduled' to work on weekends as those are the times when the range has a lot of use.

A lot haters on here, but I go Elk Neck often enough and I feel safe. The place is clean and great firing lanes. Thank you McBruzdzinski - and others - for making that place happen.

FWIW... I witnessed crazy stuff at every range I have been too. It's unfortunate that I not only have to watch what I am doing, but others as well, but it is like driving a motorcycle - you have assume everyone else there can't drive and get real good at anticipation

 

[TomisinMd]

A lot haters on here, but I go Elk Neck often enough and I feel safe. The place is clean and great firing lanes. Thank you McBruzdzinski - and others - for making that place happen.

FWIW... I witnessed crazy stuff at every range I have been too. It's unfortunate that I not only have to watch what I am doing, but others as well, but it is like driving a motorcycle - you have assume everyone else there can't drive and get real good at anticipation

Sorry but I'm spoiled I guess? I will not be a party to any "crazy stuff" at a gun range. Crazy stuff gets people killed. You break the rules at our private club and your gone, period.
We take our safety very seriously and just don't abide by that behavior. I'm very happy not going not going to EN any longer. Breaks my heart because I grew up there.

 

[BusaJ52]

I have known many instances that this will get you thrown out. A rifle round belongs on the range that is designed for it. Doesn't matter if it is out of a firearm that is short or long. Last I can remember speaking to the RSO there, no rifle ammo is to be discharged on the pistol range.

OP, Your best bet Is to contact member ENSF and ask him directly. He is the ranger in charge of Elk Neck.

Thank you very much for your response. I'd rather look a fool here then at the range.

 

[85MikeTPI]

I have known many instances that this will get you thrown out. A rifle round belongs on the range that is designed for it. Doesn't matter if it is out of a firearm that is short or long. Last I can remember speaking to the RSO there, no rifle ammo is to be discharged on the pistol range.

OP, Your best bet Is to contact member ENSF and ask him directly. He is the ranger in charge of Elk Neck.

Good advise, and exactly where my info came from as I was even confused as a RSO there since there was a lot of hearsay and personal opinions, what I gave is the ENSF policy.

 

[85MikeTPI]

Sorry but I'm spoiled I guess? I will not be a party to any "crazy stuff" at a gun range. Crazy stuff gets people killed. You break the rules at our private club and your gone, period.
We take our safety very seriously and just don't abide by that behavior. I'm very happy not going not going to EN any longer. Breaks my heart because I grew up there.

If you haven't been lately, it might be time to revisit. There was a time when the volunteer list was slim to none, but the ranks are flush and the ranges are manned on the weekends now more than ever..

 

[85MikeTPI]

I think that if you shoot your AR pistol from the shoulder, like a rifle, you have more problems than deciding which range to use.
Doesn't that technically put you in the "unregistered short barreled rifle" category?

RSOs are not LEO or ATF, so they have no right or concern what you're shooting, as long as it's safely and within the rules of the range.

 

[Lloyd]

Sorry but I'm spoiled I guess? I will not be a party to any "crazy stuff" at a gun range. Crazy stuff gets people killed. You break the rules at our private club and your gone, period.
We take our safety very seriously and just don't abide by that behavior. I'm very happy not going not going to EN any longer. Breaks my heart because I grew up there.

Did I say that one should be party to the crazy stuff? Did I say one should be permitted to do crazy stuff? Spoiled? Perhaps...

Perhaps I should reiterate for the slow ones...

Every range has had slow kids show up. And it's always the slow ones that going around pretending they are tier 1 operators, only to show everyone at the range that are nothing more than keyboard commandos. The point is, you watch what you are doing first and foremost, and on top of that, you watch what everyone else is doing. Everyone at the range is a Safety Officer, and if you see sketchy people doing something sketchy, say something... Or do nothing and then post on a web forum about what a crappy place to shoot that place is.

 

[TomisinMd]

Did I say that one should be party to the crazy stuff? Did I say one should be permitted to do crazy stuff? Spoiled? Perhaps...

Perhaps I should reiterate for the slow ones...

Every range has had slow kids show up. And it's always the slow ones that going around pretending they are tier 1 operators, only to show everyone at the range that are nothing more than keyboard commandos. The point is, you watch what you are doing first and foremost, and on top of that, you watch what everyone else is doing. Everyone at the range is a Safety Officer, and if you see sketchy people doing something sketchy, say something... Or do nothing and then post on a web forum about what a crappy place to shoot that place is.

Oi vey...

 

[whatevah]

ENSF RSO here... If you shoot it like a pistol, it stays on the pistol range. If you shoulder it (we won't ask to see NFA paperwork, ever. that's your problem.), then it goes on the rifle range.

 

[Biggfoot44]

We're having a circuit split between BossmanPJ and whatevah on the " ctg fired vs way the firearm is held " debate .

The debate is eternal without definative answer ( in general). Any specific facility or Club make make whatever rule they wish " because they said so" . Such rules probably won't be specifically UNsafe, but not the only possible iteration of Safe, and not necessarily fair or equal treatment to members/ users.

 

[whatevah]

Sadly, the rules have to be both specific and vague enough to be effective, especially when factoring in the "lowest common denominator". It'd be awesome if we could look at a shooter and say "you're, cool, you can control that 7.5" AR pistol on full-auto, have fun on the rifle range". But... we have to deal with the shooter with the shooters that show up on YouTube "fails" videos. AR/AK pistols are inherently more difficult to control and aim, so it's been decided that they should be shot on the range with the most safety features to contain errant rounds. If you've been there this year, you'll have noticed a lot of construction updates on the pistol range, all to address safety issues. I think we can all agree that a very loud, high pressure round going 2000+ FPS belongs on a longer range, but ENSF is surrounded by homes and businesses and we CANNOT have a round leave the range.

To repeat for people scrolling through... if you shoot your AK/AR pistol like an SBR (shoulder it), it goes on the rifle range. If you shoot it like a pistol, it goes on the pistol range.

The only gray area would be bracing the buffer tube or sig-brace against your cheek to stay legal vs against the shoulder. That wasn't addressed in our last meeting. I'd say that belongs on the pistol range since it's still less controlled than a shouldered rifle.

 

[85MikeTPI]

We're having a circuit split between BossmanPJ and whatevah on the " ctg fired vs way the firearm is held " debate .

The debate is eternal without definative answer ( in general). Any specific facility or Club make make whatever rule they wish " because they said so" . Such rules probably won't be specifically UNsafe, but not the only possible iteration of Safe, and not necessarily fair or equal treatment to members/ users.

No circuit split. You have two active ENSF RSOs giving out the current policy of ENSF as determined by the Ranger.

 

[Blacksmith101]

I'll bet you see a lot of "Call Of Duty Marksmen", those who learned all they need to know about firearms and marksmanship from playing video games. My hat is off to all the volunteer RSO's thank you for the time you spend helping and keeping others safe.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Ok , so then :

5.56 or 7.62 semiauto pistols; firable on pistol range, yes or no ?

T/C Contenders , XP-100, etc. Fireable on rifle range, yes or no ?

Magnum revolvers, 10mm autos, etc . Fireable on rifle range, yes or no ?

 

[whatevah]

Ok , so then :

5.56 or 7.62 semiauto pistols; firable on pistol range, yes or no ?

T/C Contenders , XP-100, etc. Fireable on rifle range, yes or no ?

Magnum revolvers, 10mm autos, etc . Fireable on rifle range, yes or no ?

The brand, model, caliber, optics, accessories, etc do not matter. It's how they're handled that determines where they can be used at the ENSF range. If you hold it away from your body like a pistol, it goes on the pistol range. If it has a stock/brace and you put it against your shoulder, it goes on the rifle range.

AR/AK pistols, only on the pistol range, like I said before. TC Contender/XP-100/Ruger Charger, even with a scope and bipod are for the pistol range. High power pistols, only on the pistol range. If you made an AR pistol that fires 300WM, it goes on the pistol range (likely just once, then off to the hospital with a broken wrist). Even if you have a scope on a magnum revolver with an 8" barrel, it still goes on the pistol range.

-ENSF RSO

 

[BossmanPJ]

We're having a circuit split between BossmanPJ and whatevah on the " ctg fired vs way the firearm is held " debate .

The debate is eternal without definative answer ( in general). Any specific facility or Club make make whatever rule they wish " because they said so" . Such rules probably won't be specifically UNsafe, but not the only possible iteration of Safe, and not necessarily fair or equal treatment to members/ users.

No split. If the active RSO for the range says that the rules have been changed then they have.

I only know what I have been told in the past. Apparently it is different now. Rock on.

 

[85MikeTPI]

No split. If the active RSO for the range says that the rules have been changed then they have.

I only know what I have been told in the past. Apparently it is different now. Rock on.

I would say they've been clarified more than changed. At one time I was told it depended on the ammo type, later I was told it depended on appearance, finally when asked for a definitive answer, we were given the above info.

As with many issues, the increased popularity of the AR pistol may have caused a needed shift in safety policies. I'm sure you're aware of the problem in trying to document every possible question that might arise, leaves some with making split decisions at the range that don't always turn out to be the correct ones..