DUNDALK Gun Show Dec-10-11

[lee2]

Apparently I'm not very good at deciphering your vague replies because I'm not getting what you're saying. I could assume something, but everybody knows what happens when you assume... LOL

its like fishing , drop your lure in the water and hope theres a deal out there( a good fish).
otherwise you have wasted a good bait.

 

[janklow]

Sure, his suit was a bad idea but I don't feel it's right for members to actively try to take food off his table. Just let the customers decide on their own.

but people are?
they're saying "here's what Fox did, judge accordingly." if it doesn't bother the buyer, that's their call.

 

[Bisleyfan44]

It sounds as if it'll save the FFL time and money, not the customer necessarily depending on their access to the internet. Will that savings filter to the buyer? Saves the FFL storing, sending, filing, sorting paperwork. Again, savings to the buyer? Maybe.

If I don't have access to "pre-qualify" (or whatever you want to call it), I'll have to do it at the FFL. I can write quicker than I can type. No benefit there.

The state WILL save time and money (the real motivation, I don't care what you say). Will that savings filter down to the buyer? Yeah, right. Personally, I don't give a damn if it saves MD govt any time or money. They created this gauntlet of burden and regulation. Let them wallow in it too.

This new system wasn't created with the thought "hey let's make the handgun purchase process easier, cheaper, and more user-friendly for the wonderful gun owners of our lovely state". To think so is simply delusional. Again, it was created solely to save MD govt. time/money regardless of any other real/perceived benefit. Again, with all the hoops they've created for us, I want it to be just as much a pain in the butt for them or more. Sorry.

And, even though highly unlikely, what if this system goes offline for whatever reason? Terrorism, maintenance issues, etc. either statewide or maybe on a smaller scale at just THE ONE FFL who's holding THE ONE HANDGUN you've searched a lifetime for. There's no backup except waiting and more waiting. There's no "OK the system is down because of XYZ, let's just do it the old way and fill out the paperwork. At least, with the current paperwork system, once you'd completed the paperwork and it was faxed to MSP, you could take possession after 7 days if something happened to the system (except for certain FFLs who wouldn't do so, like back in 2013). Under this system, if the outage happens before you start, you have no recourse other than waiting and waiting and.....

I realize this is just my opinion, it will not change anything one bit, but I don't have to like it. And I don't have to fall in line, suck it up, and like it because of peer pressure or name calling on this site. Ease up and act with respect. I agree with you Lee2, it seems we may be in the minority.

 

[j_h_smith]

It sounds as if it'll save the FFL time and money, not the customer necessarily depending on their access to the internet. Will that savings filter to the buyer? Saves the FFL storing, sending, filing, sorting paperwork. Again, savings to the buyer? Maybe.

If I don't have access to "pre-qualify" (or whatever you want to call it), I'll have to do it at the FFL. I can write quicker than I can type. No benefit there.

The state WILL save time and money (the real motivation, I don't care what you say). Will that savings filter down to the buyer? Yeah, right. Personally, I don't give a damn if it saves MD govt any time or money. They created this gauntlet of burden and regulation. Let them wallow in it too.

This new system wasn't created with the thought "hey let's make the handgun purchase process easier, cheaper, and more user-friendly for the wonderful gun owners of our lovely state". To think so is simply delusional. Again, it was created solely to save MD govt. time/money regardless of any other real/perceived benefit. Again, with all the hoops they've created for us, I want it to be just as much a pain in the butt for them or more. Sorry.

And, even though highly unlikely, what if this system goes offline for whatever reason? Terrorism, maintenance issues, etc. either statewide or maybe on a smaller scale at just THE ONE FFL who's holding THE ONE HANDGUN you've searched a lifetime for. There's no backup except waiting and more waiting. There's no "OK the system is down because of XYZ, let's just do it the old way and fill out the paperwork. At least, with the current paperwork system, once you'd completed the paperwork and it was faxed to MSP, you could take possession after 7 days if something happened to the system (except for certain FFLs who wouldn't do so, like back in 2013). Under this system, if the outage happens before you start, you have no recourse other than waiting and waiting and.....

I realize this is just my opinion, it will not change anything one bit, but I don't have to like it. And I don't have to fall in line, suck it up, and like it because of peer pressure or name calling on this site. Ease up and act with respect. I agree with you Lee2, it seems we may be in the minority.

Nothing will stop you from buying the firearm and receiving a Bill of Sale. You may not be able to start the paperwork at that time.

Remember, you do not have to start the paperwork BEFORE you buy the firearm. This is only a convenience. There is nothing that says you can't be window shopping and find something you can't live without and then do the computer generated paperwork there at the store (as long as the store has a computer set up to do this) or whenever the system is back up.

Just pay for the firearm and get a Bill of Sale.

 

[lee2]

Nothing will stop you from buying the firearm and receiving a Bill of Sale. You may not be able to start the paperwork at that time.

Remember, you do not have to start the paperwork BEFORE you buy the firearm. This is only a convenience. There is nothing that says you can't be window shopping and find something you can't live without and then do the computer generated paperwork there at the store (as long as the store has a computer set up to do this) or whenever the system is back up.

Just pay for the firearm and get a Bill of Sale.

thats great(if its set up that way), but what do you do at gunshows?

 

[TylerFirearms]

It sounds as if it'll save the FFL time and money, not the customer necessarily depending on their access to the internet. Will that savings filter to the buyer? Saves the FFL storing, sending, filing, sorting paperwork. Again, savings to the buyer? Maybe.



If I don't have access to "pre-qualify" (or whatever you want to call it), I'll have to do it at the FFL. I can write quicker than I can type. No benefit there.



The state WILL save time and money (the real motivation, I don't care what you say). Will that savings filter down to the buyer? Yeah, right. Personally, I don't give a damn if it saves MD govt any time or money. They created this gauntlet of burden and regulation. Let them wallow in it too.



This new system wasn't created with the thought "hey let's make the handgun purchase process easier, cheaper, and more user-friendly for the wonderful gun owners of our lovely state". To think so is simply delusional. Again, it was created solely to save MD govt. time/money regardless of any other real/perceived benefit. Again, with all the hoops they've created for us, I want it to be just as much a pain in the butt for them or more. Sorry.



And, even though highly unlikely, what if this system goes offline for whatever reason? Terrorism, maintenance issues, etc. either statewide or maybe on a smaller scale at just THE ONE FFL who's holding THE ONE HANDGUN you've searched a lifetime for. There's no backup except waiting and more waiting. There's no "OK the system is down because of XYZ, let's just do it the old way and fill out the paperwork. At least, with the current paperwork system, once you'd completed the paperwork and it was faxed to MSP, you could take possession after 7 days if something happened to the system (except for certain FFLs who wouldn't do so, like back in 2013). Under this system, if the outage happens before you start, you have no recourse other than waiting and waiting and.....



I realize this is just my opinion, it will not change anything one bit, but I don't have to like it. And I don't have to fall in line, suck it up, and like it because of peer pressure or name calling on this site. Ease up and act with respect. I agree with you Lee2, it seems we may be in the minority.

There are redundant servers with the new system in multiple locations throughout the state. In the event of a terror attack, transferring your handgun will be the least of the worries of MSP.

If the system completely fails, the current FAX system will be turned back on and it will be business as usual.

No one has to like it, and anyone is free to refuse to transfer handguns or leave the state. It's a free country. Do as you please. People will complain about how bad it is or that the government is just trying to create a gun registry no matter what they do. Bottom line - it will be easier, cheaper and faster to transfer regulated firearms in Maryland as of January 1st. Accept that or not, that is your choice.

 

[j_h_smith]

thats great(if its set up that way), but what do you do at gunshows?

Chuck already explained that. As long as the dealer isn't stuck in 1972, they will be able to do the paperwork via a cell phone, a tablet or a laptop using their phone's hot spot feature. That will cost the dealer a few dollars, but that's the price of doing business.

I want to tell you, I'm a "Who Moved My Cheese" kinda guy. But I really don't see this being that big of a deal. Sure, the sky could fall and none of us will EVER be able to transfer a handgun in the state of Maryland again. But I doubt it.

Sure, I'd like to see face to face and same day handgun sales in Maryland. But at this time, that's not gonna happen. Does everyone remember when you could do a face to face handgun sale but had to go through the background check if you bought a handgun from a dealer? There was outrage when that changed. We'll get through this little change in operation. I hope it works as intended and will reserve my negativity until such time that the new system doesn't work.

Give it a chance. There will be some tweaks after it goes on line, but hopefully it's nothing to worry about.

But just in case, I'm going to buy 2 handguns before the first of the year, just incase this system fails and no one will be able to buy a handgun for 16 months.

 

[TylerFirearms]

thats great(if its set up that way), but what do you do at gunshows?

Gun shows will be no different. As long as there is internet access, things will go just as smoothly as in a gun store.

 

[lee2]

Gun shows will be no different. As long as there is internet access, things will go just as smoothly as in a gun store.

Does that mean multiple computers will be available at each vendor?

 

[TylerFirearms]

Does that mean multiple computers will be available at each vendor?

That's up to each dealer. We, personally, will have at least 2 computers and multiple iPhones available.

 

[lee2]

That's up to each dealer. We, personally, will have at least 2 computers and multiple iPhones available.

 

[j_h_smith]

Does that mean multiple computers will be available at each vendor?

Come on now... No one can answer that question. This will be up to the individual vendor. Some may not want to do this at all, and others will do what they must to make the sale.

This isn't a mandatory requirement for gun show dealers, it's just a part that some will participate in and others may not.

BTW, why weren't you at the Dundalk gun show on Sunday?

 

[lee2]

Come on now... No one can answer that question. This will be up to the individual vendor. Some may not want to do this at all, and others will do what they must to make the sale.

This isn't a mandatory requirement for gun show dealers, it's just a part that some will participate in and others may not.

BTW, why weren't you at the Dundalk gun show on Sunday?

had to work my real job. 12hrs a day, plus every other weekend.
the fun never ends.

 

[j_h_smith]

had to work my real job. 12hrs a day, plus every other weekend.
the fun never ends.

That's not real if you can't make a gun show every once in awhile.

 

[Biggfoot44]

'Splain that claim of Cheaper. Did MSP lower their fee from $10 to $5 and I missed it ?

 

[j_h_smith]

'Splain that claim of Cheaper. Did MSP lower their fee from $10 to $5 and I missed it ?

If you stand sideways, turn your head 40 degrees to the left, close you left eye and jump up and down 5 times, you will see the savings in this deal. j/k

I think what's being said is that the dealers time and expenses will be less. I hope that also means a saving that will be passed down to the consumer.

 

[mopar92]

'Splain that claim of Cheaper. Did MSP lower their fee from $10 to $5 and I missed it ?

'Dunno where that was posted but considering most dealers I know of only have desktop computers and will need to either purchase electronic devices or forego handgun sales in MD I can only see prices going up in the interim for firearms as dealers pass the "cost of doing business" onto their customers. Of course the average consumer will bitch endlessly about the price raises.

 

[PapiBarcelona]

We need a Maryland Instant Check System or something similar like the PICS in Pennsylvania, except not a phone call.

I don't know how many millions of dollars it would take, but it would certainly be nice to see the 7 day wait go away with all this new technology.

If it's gun show weekend in PA, you can hear dealers talking about being on hold for minutes on end while someone completes the PA handgun paperwork.

 

[TylerFirearms]

'Splain that claim of Cheaper. Did MSP lower their fee from $10 to $5 and I missed it ?

Cheaper in the fact that I won't have to maintain paperwork (I won't have to buy more filing cabinets), have a FAX line, maintain a multi-function printer, train my employees on how to deal with all the paperwork, you will spend less time at the gun store (my personal time is worth about $200/hour), less work for MSP meaning more time can be spent on processing HQLs and handgun permits faster.

Our transfer fees, for example, will go down $5.00 once the new system is up and running.

 

[mopar92]

We need a Maryland Instant Check System or something similar like the PICS in Pennsylvania, except not a phone call.

I don't know how many millions of dollars it would take, but it would certainly be nice to see the 7 day wait go away with all this new technology.

If it's gun show weekend in PA, you can hear dealers talking about being on hold for minutes on end while someone completes the PA handgun paperwork.

MD law requires a 7 day wait for a regulated or treated as regulated firearm (AR/AK reciever). However MSP is the POC for NICS and would need (IIRC) legislative action to turn the FFL into the POC for NICS for regulated items. Then you could simply fill out a 4473 escaping the superflous, discriminatory and excessive 77R. MD Is now NICS compliant per a conversation with former MSP LD head Jack McCauley so we could make handguns 4473 and then just a 7 day wait.