Does It Work

[Mwzephi]

Posted this question on a different thread but will ask here as well. I have a Spit Fire 3x scope on my AR. Was wondering if you can put a flip over magnifier in front of that so that I can see better once I finally get out and can shoot longer distances. So far most I’ve done is the normal 25yrd indoor range. Once I get to the 100+ distance was wondering if that would work or if it’s really needed. Never been yet so I have no idea what to expect.

 

[steves1911]

I dont think a magnifier will work on anything other than a red dot. 3x is plenty for 100yd I run a spitfire on one of my builds and have used it to shoot out to 300yds often. Your money will be better spent on ammo and practice time especially just starting out.

 

[Mwzephi]

Yeah I am shocked ammo is the key to many things.

 

[danb]

See my response in the other thread. with the 3x, you should be able to hit man size targets well out to 200 yds and beyond (with practice). Heck, you can do that with irons. Now, if you want to do head-sized shots or groundhogs at 200 yds, you will need a better scope . 3x is fine though. At your skill level focus on holding the rifle and trigger control.

 

[Pinecone]

Hmm, military trained to hit out to 800 yards with IRON SIGHTS. NO magnification.

3x should be fine.

 

[willtill]

Hmm, military trained to hit out to 800 yards with IRON SIGHTS. NO magnification.

3x should be fine.

Lol. That brought back a memory from not long ago at the AGC.

I was there shooting my M&P15 with my new Holosun sight. Got it zeroed in at 25 yards then started punching my target at 100 yards.

Next two me were two very much younger guys, shooting an assortment of rifles. Their targets were set out at 50 yards and after a while; while we were changing targets downrange, one of them asked me "are you hitting anything"? I said "yes" and showed them my paper target as I was was walking back. He said, "how can you see anything at that distance?"

I was like "what"? And these guys had some scoped rifles as well.

I didn't quite understand why they thought shooting out to a hundred yards was impossible for them. Neophytes maybe?

As far as marksmanship in the military, I had no issues engaging silhouettes with iron sights out to 300 meters. High 30's or 40/40 occasionally was easily attainable.

 

[Mwzephi]

Appreciate some of the feedback. I am new to shooting longer ability guns so I don’t know what to expect. For those that have military training and other experience, that’s great, I just didn’t feel like driving over an hour away to find out I can’t see or hit crap because I wasn’t prepared. Primary point of my post, I am looking for knowledge and experience sharing, that way when I do go I have the right tools. I am fairly confident someone shared or taught you the do’s and don’ts and I am just looking for the same.

 

[Pinecone]

The do's are, learn to shoot open sights.

If others can shoot twice the range with open sights, 3x will be 3 times easier.

 

[OMCHamlin]

Appreciate some of the feedback. I am new to shooting longer ability guns so I don’t know what to expect. For those that have military training and other experience, that’s great, I just didn’t feel like driving over an hour away to find out I can’t see or hit crap because I wasn’t prepared. Primary point of my post, I am looking for knowledge and experience sharing, that way when I do go I have the right tools. I am fairly confident someone shared or taught you the do’s and don’ts and I am just looking for the same.

Okay, what you need to do is to find an "in the flesh" mentor that can shoot a service rifle with iron sights and have him or her give you some basic hands on instruction with how to use the sights, how to get into a solid position, maybe even how to use the sling to help steady your position, trigger control, etc.
If you don't have some basic instruction, your 3X scope, or even a 9x scope, won't be enough to get you to magically start hitting stuff at distance. You say you have a shorter range to shoot on nearby? Try using the reduced target found here: http://www.bobdbob.com/~deneb/doc/targets/m16a2-25m-zero.pdf. It's not perfect, but if you can begin to hit that in a fairly small group of say 5 - 10 rounds, you will be generally zeroed and have an idea that you can expect to get hits at 100 + yds.
A scope, or a magnifier and a scope, won't take the place of instruction and practice (even at short range) learning some fundamentals. After you do that, using a scope, even a 3x, will make hits easier.

eta: And as to your original question about magnifying a 3x scope with a flip over magnifier, it will not work, the image will not come into focus.

 

[WildWeasel]

Appreciate some of the feedback. I am new to shooting longer ability guns so I don’t know what to expect. For those that have military training and other experience, that’s great, I just didn’t feel like driving over an hour away to find out I can’t see or hit crap because I wasn’t prepared. Primary point of my post, I am looking for knowledge and experience sharing, that way when I do go I have the right tools. I am fairly confident someone shared or taught you the do’s and don’ts and I am just looking for the same.

The most difficult part about no magnification is the dot or irons can cover parts or all of the target. If it is, and you can't estimate where the target is behind the visual clutter, then you won't hit it... But at 100 yards? You should ring steel or put holes in paper consistently regardless of irons, dots, or 10x scopes.

I think I said this in your other, or someone's similar thread; I've never had rifles without magnified optics. With even cheap 1-4, 6, or 8s, being fairly clear and holding zero, I see them as the best of most worlds. Maybe someday a dedicated home defense gun will get an Aimpoint...

 

[parttimer]

OP 3x magnification should be plenty for 100 yards.
As stated above finding a real life mentor would be your best bet for learning to shoot. Having someone watch you and give pointers will make a world of difference on your shooting ability. Buy a few types of Ammo and see which one works best in your rifle.

Another good thing to help get your fundamentals up to par would be a shooting clinic. I am a pretty decent shot and I got my wife to do a project Appleseed weekend with me. The goal was to get her shooting better but, it was a great back to basics weekend for me. I definitely came off of that weekend shooting better and identified some bad habits that I needed to break.

Good luck and have fun.

 

[teratos]

Learning to shoot with irons before ever considering an optic is a must, IMO. The problem with kids is all the video games have optics. They think that’s the way to go and never learn the basics....and can’t hit squat.

 

[Mwzephi]

Thanks all. Got a couple experienced friends that have been shooting for a long time and competitively. I am going to reach out to them for a range day to get some mentoring.

 

[erwos]

Hmm, military trained to hit out to 800 yards with IRON SIGHTS. NO magnification.

I believe you are mistaken. The Army rifle qual is 300m. Even the USMC rifle qual is only out to 500m. Both of those quals feature targets far larger than a 100yd AGC target stand would allow. Further, I believe that both the Army and USMC now allow using ACOGs for qualifying.

 

[Pinecone]

Learning to shoot with irons before ever considering an optic is a must, IMO. The problem with kids is all the video games have optics. They think that’s the way to go and never learn the basics....and can’t hit squat.

Yes, yes, yes, and yes.

Appleseed.

 

[Pinecone]

Thanks all. Got a couple experienced friends that have been shooting for a long time and competitively. I am going to reach out to them for a range day to get some mentoring.

Best is to get instruction from a qualified instructor. Plenty of people have been shooting WRONG for many years, and yes, even those that compete.

I would check out a Project Appleseed event to get started. Or find an NRA or other qualification, certified instuctor.

https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=240579

 

[Blacksmith101]

Some training resources for you:

CMP Coaching Resources (Scroll down to Service Rifle and As-Issued Military Rifle Competition Shooting)
http://thecmp.org/training-tech/coaching-resources/

FM 3-22.9 RIFLE MARKSMANSHIP M16A1, M16A2/3, M16A4, AND M4 CARBINE
https://www.bits.de/NRANEU/others/amd-us-archive/FM3-22.9(03).pdf

USAMU Service Rifle Marksmanship Guide
https://www.scribd.com/doc/39079097/USAMU-Service-Rifle-Marksmanship-Guide

USMC Rifle Marksmanship
https://www.trngcmd.marines.mil/Portals/207/Docs/wtbn/MCRP 3-01A.pdf

USAMU International Rifle Marksmanship Guide
http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/MILITARY/us army international rifle marksmanship guide.pdf

 

[Postell]

Hmm, military trained to hit out to 800 yards with IRON SIGHTS. NO magnification.

3x should be fine.

What branch of the service does that?

 

[steves1911]

What branch of the service does that?

We qualified out to 1k with the m240b, m2, and mk19. M4 qualifications were held on a range with pop up targets out to 300 meters and the targets randomly popped up at various ranges and stayed up for a few seconds before dropping back down. The marines qualify to 500m with the m16.

 

[Pinecone]

The Marine moving target range at Quantico had targets out to 800 meters.

High Power matches are based on WWI and II military training, and they are out to 600 yards.

In more recent years, yes, the max range for military training has come down.