Does anyone know how stripped lowers are going to be handled after 10/1/2013 yet?

[rmiddle]

This hasn't come up in a while and the last update I have seen with someone that has read or has a good level of understanding hasn't been updated in some time.

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=109281&highlight=sb281

There are a lot of question marks on how stripped lowers going to be handled.

Anyone have any more info on this topic?

Thanks
Robert

 

[MightyWarMonger]

I will assume they will be treated the same as they were before the bill regulated and banned after 10/1 just my 2 cents worth

 

[rmiddle]

I will assume they will be treated the same as they were before the bill regulated and banned after 10/1 just my 2 cents worth

My question is if I have a stripped lower to keep as a spare part. We can't buy that part if that breaks in a current gun will I have any issue building it later? That question isn't clear in the law.

Thanks
Robert

 

[gmhowell]

There are one or two threads on the subject with compelling arguments both for and against. Lacking an SA or MSP official opinion, we don't really know.

 

[iH8DemLibz]

My question is if I have a stripped lower to keep as a spare part. We can't buy that part if that breaks in a current gun will I have any issue building it later? That question isn't clear in the law.

Thanks
Robert

Short of a person leaving an AR on top of the roof of their monster truck, driving away, and the AR slamming to the hard ground below, I can't see an AR receiver ever wearing out. There is nothing to wear out. I would be more concerned about fast cycling, upper components wearing out than a lower that just sits there and does nothing. Spend your money on upper parts.

The bigger question, in my opinion, is will it be against the law to own a stripped lower after 10-1 when the ban on buying stripped lowers goes into effect.

If you want to buy a lower now, do it. You can always go to Pa or Va and sell it if you are not allowed to keep it after 10-1.

I quess what I'm saying is calling a lower receiver a SPARE part won't fly. Receivers are not spare parts. They are guns.


P.S. Any opinions on Adcor Industries billet lower receivers? Some fine looking machine work, but 425 bucks seems a tad high.

 

[swinokur]

Parts seem ok to me. No serial numbers on parts.

 

[rmiddle]

Short of a person leaving an AR on top of the roof of their monster truck, driving away, and the AR slamming to the hard ground below, I can't see an AR receiver ever wearing out. There is nothing to wear out. I would be more concerned about fast cycling, upper components wearing out than a lower that just sits there and does nothing. Spend your money on upper parts.

The bigger question, in my opinion, is will it be against the law to own a stripped lower after 10-1 when the ban on buying stripped lowers goes into effect.

If you want to buy a lower now, do it. You can always go to Pa or Va and sell it if you are not allowed to keep it after 10-1.

I quess what I'm saying is calling a lower receiver a SPARE part won't fly. Receivers are not spare parts. They are guns.


P.S. Any opinions on Adcor Industries billet lower receivers? Some fine looking machine work, but 425 bucks seems a tad high.

Uppers can be bought after 10/1 without issue. Sames with every other part on an ar15 but because a stripped lower is considered a gun if something happens to it you can't replace it. It may be the last piece to every go on your gun but if you have already replaced every piece twice on your gun you are still screwed if you current ar15 were to crack it lower.

Thanks
Robert

 

[dblas]

Uppers can be bought after 10/1 without issue. Sames with every other part on an ar15 but because a stripped lower is considered a gun if something happens to it you can't replace it. It may be the last piece to every go on your gun but if you have already replaced every piece twice on your gun you are still screwed if you current ar15 were to crack it lower.

Thanks
Robert

Right now no one knows for sure how they will be treated after October 1, but the consensus is, they will be banned. If you have a receiver failure, the only recourse is to send it to a gunsmith for repair instead of doing it your self.

 

[101combatvet]

My question is if I have a stripped lower to keep as a spare part. We can't buy that part if that breaks in a current gun will I have any issue building it later? That question isn't clear in the law.

Thanks
Robert

As long as you don't post this question on the web you should be okay.

The lower is considered a firearm build or not with that in mind you are probably okay. To be on the safe side and this is just being overly cautious... you may want to consider having it build to a complete lower. Just saying...

 

[101combatvet]

Short of a person leaving an AR on top of the roof of their monster truck, driving away, and the AR slamming to the hard ground below, I can't see an AR receiver ever wearing out. There is nothing to wear out. I would be more concerned about fast cycling, upper components wearing out than a lower that just sits there and does nothing. Spend your money on upper parts.

The bigger question, in my opinion, is will it be against the law to own a stripped lower after 10-1 when the ban on buying stripped lowers goes into effect.

If you want to buy a lower now, do it. You can always go to Pa or Va and sell it if you are not allowed to keep it after 10-1.

I quess what I'm saying is calling a lower receiver a SPARE part won't fly. Receivers are not spare parts. They are guns.


P.S. Any opinions on Adcor Industries billet lower receivers? Some fine looking machine work, but 425 bucks seems a tad high.

Actually, I saw one take a road hit after flying from a vehicle. It still functioned flawlessly.

 

[R1Peacock]

Prices for lowers are back down to before the craziness. Buy 10 and you, your kids and your grandkids should be set. If you recall back when the first AWB was enforced dealers were selling lowers as "pre ban" until the law went into effect.

In Maryland the lower is regulated and registered when purchased. As long as your dealer has it and your paperwork is complete and awaiting approval before 10/1 you should be good. In Maryland the lower is considered the actual firearm.

I'm not directing this to you but everyone just needs to remain silent about any ???? regarding unclear areas of the law. If the law does not specifically say something - assume you can do it unless a decision is officially distributed by MSP, etc. The law as it stands now is like a piece of Swiss Cheese. We don't need MOM to read this forum and get another hard on. On 10/1 the law falls under the "Four Corners Rule".

Four corners (law) is the meaning of a written contract, will, or deed as represented solely by its textual content. This term may also be applicable to other legal instruments.

From the four corners of the document: as derived from the text of the agreement itself, without relying upon other resources or witnesses.

"Absent ambiguity, the parties’ intentions must be discerned from the four corners of the document, and extrinsic evidence may not be considered."

 

[J-Dog]

P.S. Any opinions on Adcor Industries billet lower receivers? Some fine looking machine work, but 425 bucks seems a tad high.

I've got two. My wife bought them Pre-Madness for us as an early Christmas present. They seem OK to my completely untrained eye, in that they are not obvivously flawed and the machine work looks OK. However I've heard their more recent stuff has taken a bit of a dive in the quality department. I've not started building mine yet though so all I can offer is an untrained visual inspection.

However, the irony of a lower with "Baltimore, MD" stamped on it is not lost on me.

 

[fabsroman]

Prices for lowers are back down to before the craziness. Buy 10 and you, your kids and your grandkids should be set. If you recall back when the first AWB was enforced dealers were selling lowers as "pre ban" until the law went into effect.

In Maryland the lower is regulated and registered when purchased. As long as your dealer has it and your paperwork is complete and awaiting approval before 10/1 you should be good. In Maryland the lower is considered the actual firearm.

I'm not directing this to you but everyone just needs to remain silent about any ???? regarding unclear areas of the law. If the law does not specifically say something - assume you can do it unless a decision is officially distributed by MSP, etc. The law as it stands now is like a piece of Swiss Cheese. We don't need MOM to read this forum and get another hard on. On 10/1 the law falls under the "Four Corners Rule".

Four corners (law) is the meaning of a written contract, will, or deed as represented solely by its textual content. This term may also be applicable to other legal instruments.

From the four corners of the document: as derived from the text of the agreement itself, without relying upon other resources or witnesses.

"Absent ambiguity, the parties’ intentions must be discerned from the four corners of the document, and extrinsic evidence may not be considered."

Too bad we are not talking about a contract, deed, will, trust, etc., but a legislative act.

So, you need to look at statutory interpretation and how the Maryland Courts use it. It is not the same as the 4 corners rule. Also, where a document (i.e., contract) is unclear the courts will look to the extrinsic evidence and the intent of the parties. When a statute is unclear, the Courts will look at legislative intent.

What is clear is that the AR-15 is going to be on the banned list except for the HBAR, AR-57, and AR pistols. What is unclear is whether the AR-15 lower will be treated as a "part" even though it is now being treated as the actual firearm and it is the "part" of the firearm that carries the serial number.

There is a ton of grey area in SB281. Question is who really wants to be the test case on this stuff.

 

[iH8DemLibz]

Actually, I saw one take a road hit after flying from a vehicle. It still functioned flawlessly.

That is exactly my point.

Thank you.

It would take MEGA abuse to render a lower no longer servicable.

 

[iH8DemLibz]

Uppers can be bought after 10/1 without issue. Sames with every other part on an ar15 but because a stripped lower is considered a gun if something happens to it you can't replace it. It may be the last piece to every go on your gun but if you have already replaced every piece twice on your gun you are still screwed if you current ar15 were to crack it lower.

Thanks
Robert

You completely missed my point.

 

[R1Peacock]

Judges always cited the Four Corners Rule when I went before them to get a Search Warrant signed when I worked Vice/Narcotics and when I went to court during a trial. If it wasn't written down you couldn't go off of interpretation or "well I meant to say it". I now deal with it on a daily basis at the Federal Level with the DOJ and FBI.

Just my 2 cents.... Don't want to get into a law debate - do it all day with Federal Attorneys.

 

[fabsroman]

Judges always cited the Four Corners Rule when I went before them to get a Search Warrant signed when I worked Vice/Narcotics and when I went to court during a trial. If it wasn't written down you couldn't go off of interpretation or "well I meant to say it". I now deal with it on a daily basis at the Federal Level with the DOJ and FBI.

Just my 2 cents.... Don't want to get into a law debate - do it all day with Federal Attorneys.

There is a difference between a search warrant, which is a document, and a statute. The search warrant has to be very specific. So does a statute, but when there is some ambiguity, the Court can look to Legislative intent and Legislative history to try and make sense of the statute. When a statute is clear as day, that is how it will be applied without looking to Legislative intent of Legislative history.

 

[Logan]

The lowers are the only part of the weapon with a serial number, which can be used in registration. The lower is considered the weapon. All other parts are just parts, so they should be purchasable at any time. Spare lowers come in handy, especially if you have a carbon fiber weapon that has had issues with cracking at the buffer retainer.

Has there been any word on progress with making this law unconstitutional?

 

[MDLiberty]

buy lowers now

build whenever you want

 

[HarCo2ANewb]

That is exactly my point.

Thank you.

It would take MEGA abuse to render a lower no longer servicable.

You seem to forget some people buy polymer lowers