Democrats Defy Supreme Court, Seek to Ban Common Use Guns

[Allen65]

Not sure if posted elsewhere, but Pelosi pulled the bill. Looks like she is planning on reintroducing something with possible "compromises" to get the needed support. Still means AWB will be included. Bought another few weeks for now.

It's an election year. I can't see anything containing an AWB passing the Senate. And Congress goes on recess for all of August starting in a few days, so there might even be a decision on one of the Bruen-remanded cases by the time a modified bill could be voted on, that would kill AWBs once and for all.

 

[teratos]

It's an election year. I can't see anything containing an AWB passing the Senate. And Congress goes on recess for all of August starting in a few days, so there might even be a decision on one of the Bruen-remanded cases by the time a modified bill could be voted on, that would kill AWBs once and for all.

I’m looking forward to the day. Bianchi should be sometime in near future (in the court’s terms). Magazine limits, too. Those are the big ones, IMO.

 

[JohnnyE]

I ask that our resident expert 2A attorneys chime in regarding whether, as a result of Bruen, we may see more injunctions granted enjoining enforcement of regs and statutes pending consideration and a decision on the merits.

 

[HaveBlue]

Plenty of taxes are due right away, not later. Also plenty of taxes if you fail to pay, you are going to prison unless you can show it was an honest mistake.

Skip paying excise taxes on liquor and see how well that goes...

Thank you for helping me look for a non-2A parallel!

The IRS levies Excise taxes on business. They may pass the cost on to the consumer but the business is responsible for filing the form 720. That form is filed after the transaction, not as a prerequisite for approval to complete the transaction.

You can always go to prison for provable or intentional fraud. Or in the case of the folks that don’t believe the government has the authority to tax…. intentionally disregard IRS instruction.

Generally ( I can‘t believe I’m using the IRS as the “good” example) the IRS wants to collect the money an is happy to levy a fine. The ATF seems to wield the NFA like a baseball bat wrapped in barbed wire.

Not only that, the ATF cashes your $200 check, months before you are allowed to take possession.

Why can’t I pay it at the same time the transaction takes place? Because it isn’t really a tax? I don’t think that even Jerry Naddler believes it’s a tax either.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

Tell Nadless and his cohorts… “If you want to live in a country where the guns you hate are banned from private ownership… Venezuela may allow you to immigrate.”

And… “We’ll help you pack!”

Better yet, North Korea

 

[Bullfrog]

Not sure if posted elsewhere, but Pelosi pulled the bill. Looks like she is planning on reintroducing something with possible "compromises" to get the needed support. Still means AWB will be included. Bought another few weeks for now.

The ghoul probably has her fingers crossed for another shooting that fits her narrative so she can carry it back in proudly, followed by the torch and pitchfork crowd.

 

[lazarus]

Thank you for helping me look for a non-2A parallel!

The IRS levies Excise taxes on business. They may pass the cost on to the consumer but the business is responsible for filing the form 720. That form is filed after the transaction, not as a prerequisite for approval to complete the transaction.

You can always go to prison for provable or intentional fraud. Or in the case of the folks that don’t believe the government has the authority to tax…. intentionally disregard IRS instruction.

Generally ( I can‘t believe I’m using the IRS as the “good” example) the IRS wants to collect the money an is happy to levy a fine. The ATF seems to wield the NFA like a baseball bat wrapped in barbed wire.

Not only that, the ATF cashes your $200 check, months before you are allowed to take possession.

Why can’t I pay it at the same time the transaction takes place? Because it isn’t really a tax? I don’t think that even Jerry Naddler believes it’s a tax either.

Because background checks.

When you buy a house, you can't choose to pay the various taxes due at a later date. Now, I guess in theory you could dodge those taxes and take that prosecution by skipping them. However, since your realtor has an obligation to follow the law, as does your bank, and the title company you cannot complete the transaction and actually have the deed assigned to you until you pay the taxes.

Some taxes are due at the time of the transaction, full stop.

In general others are too. Excise tax on a car? Can't register it till you pay it to the DMV or the dealership (the later of whom will remit it to the state).

Back on the 1A, can't hold that march, rally, protest until you pay the "fee" to the state/city/county. Good luck holding the protest anyway without bothering to file the paperwork and pay the fee or tax (up to you how you want to look at it) in advance.

 

[Brychan]

You can hold a any kind of march, demonstrations, protests you wish without a permit. If your group is large enough or a sensitive (woke) matter, you may or may not have problem with the police depending on their guts of the local politicians. In some mostly peaceful protests, a little burning, a little destruction can be overlooked.

 

[HaveBlue]

Because background checks.

When you buy a house, you can't choose to pay the various taxes due at a later date. Now, I guess in theory you could dodge those taxes and take that prosecution by skipping them. However, since your realtor has an obligation to follow the law, as does your bank, and the title company you cannot complete the transaction and actually have the deed assigned to you until you pay the taxes.

Some taxes are due at the time of the transaction, full stop.

In general others are too. Excise tax on a car? Can't register it till you pay it to the DMV or the dealership (the later of whom will remit it to the state).

Back on the 1A, can't hold that march, rally, protest until you pay the "fee" to the state/city/county. Good luck holding the protest anyway without bothering to file the paperwork and pay the fee or tax (up to you how you want to look at it) in advance.

There is no special NFA background check. It’s a NICS check. Before Obama’s last change went through, trustees of trusts weren’t required to submit fingerprint cards. Strangely enough, I was able to buy and pay all of the taxes on a climate killing pick‘‘em up truck with no fingerprint cards. I‘ve bought several houses and a firearm or two without fingerprint Cards as well.

I wasn’t suggesting that tax evasion didn’t have penalties. If paying the NFA tax was as simple as a vehicle tax, property tax or a sales tax, then NFA, along with your examples, would look like a tax.

I’ll even add to your list: How about income taxes withholding on your paycheck? Those taxes must be withheld by your employer to avoid breaking the law.

if I buy a suppressor January 1 and immediately send my $200 to the ATF they’ll cash that check by January 15. At this point, by any standard, my taxes have been paid. When can I get my can out of NFA jail? October. Why? Because it isn’t a tax any more than I’m a leprechaun.

If I take it out of jail in September (Before I receive my tax stamp) 8 1/2 months AFTER I paid my tax, I go to jail for a long time.

What if you buy a house and pay your taxes in January but have to wait 10 months before the government will let you move in. What if you get sent to prison for trying to move in 6 months AFTER you paid the taxes? Does that still sound like a tax?

 

[lazarus]

There is no special NFA background check. It’s a NICS check. Before Obama’s last change went through, trustees of trusts weren’t required to submit fingerprint cards. Strangely enough, I was able to buy and pay all of the taxes on a climate killing pick‘‘em up truck with no fingerprint cards. I‘ve bought several houses and a firearm or two without fingerprint Cards as well.

I wasn’t suggesting that tax evasion didn’t have penalties. If paying the NFA tax was as simple as a vehicle tax, property tax or a sales tax, then NFA, along with your examples, would look like a tax.

I’ll even add to your list: How about income taxes withholding on your paycheck? Those taxes must be withheld by your employer to avoid breaking the law.

if I buy a suppressor January 1 and immediately send my $200 to the ATF they’ll cash that check by January 15. At this point, by any standard, my taxes have been paid. When can I get my can out of NFA jail? October. Why? Because it isn’t a tax any more than I’m a leprechaun.

If I take it out of jail in September (Before I receive my tax stamp) 8 1/2 months AFTER I paid my tax, I go to jail for a long time.

What if you buy a house and pay your taxes in January but have to wait 10 months before the government will let you move in. What if you get sent to prison for trying to move in 6 months AFTER you paid the taxes? Does that still sound like a tax?

I am not arguing we should have to wait like this. I am just arguing the reason why you can’t buy one and send your tax payment in later. As was argued like income taxes.

Many taxes have to be paid upfront.

For NFA, if you get it refunded if you are denied, there is no reason ATF should cash the check or charge you until you are approved.

There is a bit more than a NICS check. Not much more. If they weren’t so slammed and all of their systems were automated, with proper staffing it shouldn’t take more than a day or two to process (probably 30-60 minutes of actual work).

 

[sxs]

To the lawyers i ask, how do we force any financial penalties upon government? When they clearly intend to violate our rights?

i don’t know much about 1983/198x damages and stuff like that, but when governments representatives come out and say they know they are violating the constitutional rights of folks, it’s their intent in passing the law, as hockul and nadler have done recently, what’s the recourse?

merely tossing the law does not bring accountability. Is there any way to punish?

We should be able to sue the individuals who are so obviously disrespecting the plain meaning of our law and court decisions.

 

[jrumann59]

My Hope is every gun rights group files lawsuit for any bills whether compromise is met or not. Need SCOTUS making precedent against bans air tight. The only way to remove them is by amendment.

 

[sleev-les]

Just reading the Rules committee somehow forced the bill to the floor for a vote today. These pricks just don’t let up.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Miller said arms suitable for militia service were protected.

And there's the inherent irony right there ! The item in question was inherently suited for Militia use , but but Miller's lawyer didn't bother to make the point .

 

[Biggfoot44]

For example, if the fee for a carry permit can be shown to cover the costs of the administration of the permits, that would probably be found to be reasonable. If the permit fee is well in excess of that or is shown to be a serious roadblock to most, that would probably be found to be unreasonable .

Porportional , reasonable , etc , Plus nondiscrimination in application .



Ironically , the $200 Tax could have been attacked ... In 1934 .

Adjusted for inflation , the $200 then is equivalent to about $4,500 today . Clearly intended to de facto prohibit rather than reasonable and porportional .

But post WWII , the Treasury Dept , later ATF made conscious decision to not adjust for inflation , to make more affordable . They decided to encourage compliance , instead of driving underground with excessive fees .

 

[Biggfoot44]

I hear you. But it is 2022 today. It might not have been reasonable then. It might be now.

I can be as angry as I want about it (I own several NFA items. Not happy with the process or expense to buy F-ing mufflers), but that won't change what SCOTUS will rule in the end. I am very happy to throw things at the wall and men and women who can come up with good, sound, logical, law and constitution-based arguments why the NFA should be struck down and then present that case to the courts.

I just don't think there is much of a chance of even this court ruling against the entirety of the NFA. And I think the tax is the weakest argument against it.

ATF could produce numbers about manpower and maintain the Register such that $200 would be within an order of magnitude of being porportional , in 2022 dollars .

Hughes is an absolute Ban .

And Form 020 are ripe . They can attempt to make an argument about actual Machineguns , but no justification to require 020 for SBR and SBS while exempting Supressors and AOW .

 

[Threeband]

And there's the inherent irony right there ! The item in question was inherently suited for Militia use , but but Miller's lawyer didn't bother to make the point .

According to a slightly garbled account by Andrew Napolitano, Miller did not have a lawyer.

The statute that Miller violated and for which he was convicted was not based on the Second Amendment but on a big-government, grossly misleading reading of the Commerce Clause. Miller himself was represented by a series of lawyers, none of whom was paid and all of whom deserted him after filing an appeal at the Supreme Court.

When the court heard oral argument — this is inconceivable today — it had only the government’s briefs before it and only government lawyers in the courtroom. It is no surprise that the Supreme Court of the United States, hearing only the government’s side of a case, ruled that the Second Amendment does not confer or protect a personal right to own or carry a gun, but does so only for state militias, today called the National Guard.

This ruling unleashed a flood of state regulations that varied from only the police can own and carry a gun to any adult can do so.

Your Gun Is None of the Government’s Business - LewRockwell

No sooner had the Supreme Court released its decision last month recognizing the personal right to carry a handgun outside the home than the big-government politicians began to resist the court’s holding. None was more anti-Constitution than New York Gov. Kathy Hochul, who told the court that...

www.lewrockwell.com

 

[HaveBlue]

According to a slightly garbled account by Andrew Napolitano, Miller did not have a lawyer.

Your Gun Is None of the Government’s Business - LewRockwell

No sooner had the Supreme Court released its decision last month recognizing the personal right to carry a handgun outside the home than the big-government politicians began to resist the court’s holding. None was more anti-Constitution than New York Gov. Kathy Hochul, who told the court that...

www.lewrockwell.com

Correct me if I’m wrong, I believe Miller was dead or out of prison by the time SCOTUS heard the case. In any case, neither Miller nor his counsel showed up at SCOTUS for the case.

“No appearance for appellees.”

UNITED STATES v. MILLER et al.

www.law.cornell.edu

 

[teratos]

Correct me if I’m wrong, I believe Miller was dead or out of prison by the time SCOTUS heard the case. In any case, neither Miller nor his counsel showed up at SCOTUS for the case.

“No appearance for appellees.”

UNITED STATES v. MILLER et al.

www.law.cornell.edu

Dead.

 

[DC-W]

He was found dead after the case had been argued. His counsel couldn’t afford to travel to the Supreme Court.