Crop Damage permit reasoning

[fabsroman]

Like I said, the numbers where I hunt have been ravaged by year-long culling. Before that, I alone was pulling 9-15 deer out a season. There was no FHFH for me to donate to. I had to find homes for every deer I shot. The piece I hunt is only 40-50 acres(mostly field), surrounded by very low hunting pressure now that they stopped culling. Killing deer on every outing would just result in pushing the deer off 'my' property, onto other properties that, for the most part, aren't really being hunted.

What would you suggest?

Also, some of the blame falls on the landowners as well, taking into consideration that deer hunters can be their own worst enemies at times.

The few bad hunters out there give all hunters a bad name. I have some stories about some idiots, one of whom I had invited with me to hunt in Washington County. He shot the farm owner's daughter's pet mallards "by accident". I can kind of see how it was an accident because he was and still is an amateur hunter, but good God. I have other stories too, but at least they weren't because of the people I invited to hunt with me. Just some idiots that the farm owners gave permission to.

Last time I went deer hunting was probably a decade ago. I got to hunt a farm with crop damage permits next to Seneca Park. I had already been hunting there for a couple of years to help the farm owner out. Never was a problem killing deer there. Well, that morning I killed 8 does back in the woods. No access by truck, so I had to drag them all out. Finally got them all in the truck. Dropped one off at a friend's and then took the other 7 up to Frederick to Feed the Hungry. Did not get home until it was well past dark and I was exhausted. If that ever happens again, I will go out and buy a 4 wheeler to drag them out.

 

[outrider58]

How would that work for someone like me, who is interested in getting 2-3 deer a year, as that's what my family can eat. Would I want to promise the farmer a number of additional deer to be taken and donated? Or a set number of days per month to be there hunting?

If you're volunteering to help the farmer by removing deer, he's going to expect you to hunt, A LOT. He wants ALL DEER gone. While this isn't practical or possible, he's expecting you to try. He only gets so many names(depending on size of farm/proposed holding capacity of deer/ estimated number of deer needing to be irradicated, etc). Like I said, is been a few years since I've taken part in crop deprivation control so things may be different now. The farmer's expectations however, have not.

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[outrider58]

The few bad hunters out there give all hunters a bad name. I have some stories about some idiots, one of whom I had invited with me to hunt in Washington County. He shot the farm owner's daughter's pet mallards "by accident". I can kind of see how it was an accident because he was and still is an amateur hunter, but good God. I have other stories too, but at least they weren't because of the people I invited to hunt with me. Just some idiots that the farm owners gave permission to.

Last time I went deer hunting was probably a decade ago. I got to hunt a farm with crop damage permits next to Seneca Park. I had already been hunting there for a couple of years to help the farm owner out. Never was a problem killing deer there. Well, that morning I killed 8 does back in the woods. No access by truck, so I had to drag them all out. Finally got them all in the truck. Dropped one off at a friend's and then took the other 7 up to Frederick to Feed the Hungry. Did not get home until it was well past dark and I was exhausted. If that ever happens again, I will go out and buy a 4 wheeler to drag them out.

I don't think I could hunt deer without a wheeler. I'd kill nothing but fawns, lol.

Mallards look a lot like deer. An honest mistake.

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[fabsroman]

How would that work for someone like me, who is interested in getting 2-3 deer a year, as that's what my family can eat. Would I want to promise the farmer a number of additional deer to be taken and donated? Or a set number of days per month to be there hunting?

Develop a relationship with the farmer. It isn't just about how many days you can hunt and how many deer you can take off the property, but the friendship that can be established. I have done free legal work for a couple of farm owners that have allowed me to hunt on their property. I lend a hand when I can. I kill as many deer as I can when asked to. Same goes for groundhogs, foxes, and coyotes when asked.

The thing about promising to take a certain number of deer off the property is that the deer do not always cooperate. However, when 10+ deer come around and you kill 3 of them, the farmer knows you are serious. On those days where opportunity presents itself, kill as many as you can and then donate what you do not want. Always offer the extra to the farmer and the farmer's friends, then take the rest to a Feed the Hungry processor.

 

[Antarctica]

As far as people volunteering to shoot deer for farmers on permits, the permit is good for a year starting at the beginning of March until the end of February and you need to have the names of people doing the shooting to be listed on the permit and their dnr# and you cannot change or add any until you reapply at the end of February.

I'm certain that crop damage permits are issued out of cycle with the above March/February schedule. Several years ago I was listed as agent on one that was issued in August (that situation in itself was pretty weird because it was literally for one deer in a fenced in 'farm' of about 30 acres that was eating their organic produce. It was a buddies place, and yes, they are kinda pilgrims when it comes to this stuff).

I find it hard to believe that DNR wouldn't allow the listed agents to be modified over the year, but I could certainly be wrong. Dumb if so...

 

[fabsroman]

I don't think I could hunt deer without a wheeler. I'd kill nothing but fawns, lol.

Mallards look a lot like deer. An honest mistake.

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Yeah, we were goose/duck hunting. It was a fogy day with fog coming off of the "marsh" that the cattle were in. I shot at a pair of mallards (hen/drake) that were flying into the overflowing creek and marshy grass. This guy was making his way to me after parking his car, and he decided to walk down to look for those two ducks. It was a rare miss for me. Anyway, I hear 3 shots, he reloads, and then I hear another 2 shots. He walks out of the fog with two drake mallards that would rival a large canada goose in size. He was happy as can be, until I told him he shot the farm owner's daughter's ducks. I asked him if they even tried to fly away when he started shooting, and he said "No". He knew those drake mallards were on the farm. He had been there with me before. I guess I can see how a novice could make that kind of mistake. Luckily, the farm owner is a paisan of my mom and dad, so he did not shoot us when he found out, but boy was he pissed. We agreed to never mention it again and he would tell his daughter that a fox got them. There is a little more to the story, of course. lol

 

[outrider58]

Yeah, we were goose/duck hunting. It was a fogy day with fog coming off of the "marsh" that the cattle were in. I shot at a pair of mallards (hen/drake) that were flying into the overflowing creek and marshy grass. This guy was making his way to me after parking his car, and he decided to walk down to look for those two ducks. It was a rare miss for me. Anyway, I hear 3 shots, he reloads, and then I hear another 2 shots. He walks out of the fog with two drake mallards that would rival a large canada goose in size. He was happy as can be, until I told him he shot the farm owner's daughter's ducks. I asked him if they even tried to fly away when he started shooting, and he said "No". He knew those drake mallards were on the farm. He had been there with me before. I guess I can see how a novice could make that kind of mistake. Luckily, the farm owner is a paisan of my mom and dad, so he did not shoot us when he found out, but boy was he pissed. We agreed to never mention it again and he would tell his daughter that a fox got them. There is a little more to the story, of course. lol

Lol!

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[44man]

They need to stop charging me $3500 a year for the 60 acre lease that they crop damage hunt all year and maybe the hunters will be willing to help out. As far as night using a rifle/suppressor (its not a silencer) goes I was under the impression that DNR (info from DNR) does not permit that unless its a special circumstance which has happened once in the last 10 years and if you are using a rifle for DMP in a non rifle county that is a big no under the regs.

Why would they, farmers don’t make much and income is income

 

[44man]

My understanding about night shooting and using silencers in this area is done on Federal land (think Naval Academy, Fort Meade, NIH, etc.) by employees of Fish and Wildlife. Maryland may have similar system for state parks or areas that are overrun and unable to be hunted due to too many regulations. But I could be wrong...

As far as people volunteering to shoot deer for farmers on permits, the permit is good for a year starting at the beginning of March until the end of February and you need to have the names of people doing the shooting to be listed on the permit and their dnr# and you cannot change or add any until you reapply at the end of February.

And there are conditions about who can do what and when, folks living on the property vs not, family vs not

 

[outrider58]

They need to stop charging me $3500 a year for the 60 acre lease that they crop damage hunt all year and maybe the hunters will be willing to help out. As far as night using a rifle/suppressor (its not a silencer) goes I was under the impression that DNR (info from DNR) does not permit that unless its a special circumstance which has happened once in the last 10 years and if you are using a rifle for DMP in a non rifle county that is a big no under the regs.

AFAIK, MoCo uses police with suppressed rifles to cull deer in parks. Not sure if this takes place after dark. This is what I've been told anyway.

 

[44man]

And I don’t want folks thinking I am a complete dick, I most likely won’t have any new folks this year hunting

I have had problems in the past and told of some of them here, such as trash, broken fences, people fooling with my equipment, glass breakage and I have dozens of holes shot in the tin of my big barn from the inside.

I know not all people are like that

I also know I have all but begged for farm help in trade for hunting and all I got was basically insulted since apparently hard dirty work isn’t work hunting rights. Some offered money, at the time I had money and needed help but no one took me up on it

So I think it’s just easier to do the best I can with my boy and uncle and cousins and hit shoot the remainder of my crop damage permit deer

 

[outrider58]

Don't blame you.

 

[Archeryrob]

The rules are the rules and the man paying the mortgage and holding the property title makes those rules. Don't follow the rules and don't wonder why you can't hunt.

 

[Antarctica]

And I don’t want folks thinking I am a complete dick, I most likely won’t have any new folks this year hunting

I have had problems in the past and told of some of them here, such as trash, broken fences, people fooling with my equipment, glass breakage and I have dozens of holes shot in the tin of my big barn from the inside.

I know not all people are like that

I also know I have all but begged for farm help in trade for hunting and all I got was basically insulted since apparently hard dirty work isn’t work hunting rights. Some offered money, at the time I had money and needed help but no one took me up on it

So I think it’s just easier to do the best I can with my boy and uncle and cousins and hit shoot the remainder of my crop damage permit deer

Holy shit. That's unfathomable to me. Guests on your property and that's the way they respect the opportunity they've been given? Your previous post makes a lot more sense now. I don't blame you for feeling that way one bit.

As for helping on a farm, I suspect that for many who want to hunt and who are 'into' the outdoors, its less an aversion to hard work and more a matter of time. Balancing work, family, etc makes little time for hunting other than weekends or the occasional evening - let alone putting in any significant time for someone else.

When I've approached people about hunting their property, I've offered what I could in exchange that works within my limitations - namely honey and equipment repair (electronics, mechanical repair and machining). Beyond that, I'm about tapped out for time when 12 hours of my day is taken working and commuting, and trying to spend some of the remaining time on the weekend with family, after fixing cars and stuff around the house.

 

[kalister1]

Many years ago two MSP Troopers came into work with one of the Company Armed Guards. They escorted a coworker out. He came back the next day. He and his Boy had permission to hunt a farm. The boy did not see any deer so he shot TWO COWS. One died one went back to the barn bleeding. The Farmer called the Police and DNR and they went out an found the remains of the Dead one. The boy had a backpack with both Hunting License's in it and Dads feel out in the mess, so that is why the MSP came for him. Dad could prove where he was, (Time Clock) so the boy took the hit.
Do you think that Farmer likes Hunters?

 

[fabsroman]

Many years ago two MSP Troopers came into work with one of the Company Armed Guards. They escorted a coworker out. He came back the next day. He and his Boy had permission to hunt a farm. The boy did not see any deer so he shot TWO COWS. One died one went back to the barn bleeding. The Farmer called the Police and DNR and they went out an found the remains of the Dead one. The boy had a backpack with both Hunting License's in it and Dads feel out in the mess, so that is why the MSP came for him. Dad could prove where he was, (Time Clock) so the boy took the hit.
Do you think that Farmer likes Hunters?

The father should have offered to pay for both cows. My son would not see the light of day if he did that.

I mean the stories out there are insane, and I know some of them first hand. An acquaintance, who was a friend at the time, told me a story of him hunting out in WV. His family owned property out there and he hunted out there quite a bit. One day, he was glassing for deer and he saw a bison. He kept looking at it and debated shooting it, because, well nobody would believe him when he told them he saw a bison in WV. So, he shoots it. No bison season in WV mind you, but he shoots it anyways. Might have been the only bison in WV ever, but he shoots it anyways. It drops dead. He goes to try to cut the head off, and he runs into an 8' high fence. It is at this point that he realizes that the bison was a game farm animal on a preserve. So, he starts to throw up in panic and then he starts to run, continuing to throw up along the way. After hearing that story, I should have quit hanging around with him, but that was when I was young and less wise. Took a couple trips in m vehicle with him having pot on him and me previously warning him not to, to end that relationship. The last trip with pot in the vehicle was a doozy. Two long to write it all out here, but it involved a minivan with a burned out headlight, DC police, and MoCo police. That was a good night out.

 

[fabsroman]

And I don’t want folks thinking I am a complete dick, I most likely won’t have any new folks this year hunting

I have had problems in the past and told of some of them here, such as trash, broken fences, people fooling with my equipment, glass breakage and I have dozens of holes shot in the tin of my big barn from the inside.

I know not all people are like that

I also know I have all but begged for farm help in trade for hunting and all I got was basically insulted since apparently hard dirty work isn’t work hunting rights. Some offered money, at the time I had money and needed help but no one took me up on it

So I think it’s just easier to do the best I can with my boy and uncle and cousins and hit shoot the remainder of my crop damage permit deer

Yep, I will believe that all of that stuff happens. Just some complete idiots out there. You really have to know people personally before extending them an invite to hunt on your property. I'd require at least a day in advance of working with me on the farm, having lunch provided by me on that day, and sitting down with the person and talking to the person.

Another story I have involves the Howard County farm I hunt on. The owner, an old Italian man, would allow pretty much anybody to hunt on the farm. Ran into a person still hunting with a bow in a ghillie suit during firearms season. That was a jackass for sure. However, the thing that got everybody kicked off the farm, with a couple exceptions, me being one of them, is that some idiot gutted a deer in this guy's spring house. Not only did the idiot gut the deer in there, but the idiot took all of the man's wine. This farmer, in true Italian style, would buy a bunch of grapes, squeeze them, and make his own wine. Instead of keeping it in a cellar, he would keep it in the spring house. So, he enters the spring house to a gut pile and to no wine whatsoever. Yeah, I would have been madder than hell if I was in his shoes. So, that was the end of him allowing any Tom, Dick, and Harry to hunt there.

 

[gwchem]

And I don’t want folks thinking I am a complete dick, I most likely won’t have any new folks this year hunting

I have had problems in the past and told of some of them here, such as trash, broken fences, people fooling with my equipment, glass breakage and I have dozens of holes shot in the tin of my big barn from the inside.

I know not all people are like that

I also know I have all but begged for farm help in trade for hunting and all I got was basically insulted since apparently hard dirty work isn’t work hunting rights. Some offered money, at the time I had money and needed help but no one took me up on it

So I think it’s just easier to do the best I can with my boy and uncle and cousins and hit shoot the remainder of my crop damage permit deer

Nobody thinks you're a dick, you seem like a really nice guy on this forum. Maybe we'll shoot together someday. On the hunting thing, most of us are just jealous you have the space.

Its ridiculous that guests would treat your property that way. I'd be furious too.

 

[Deersniper]

My understanding about night shooting and using silencers in this area is done on Federal land (think Naval Academy, Fort Meade, NIH, etc.) by employees of Fish and Wildlife. Maryland may have similar system for state parks or areas that are overrun and unable to be hunted due to too many regulations. But I could be wrong...

As far as people volunteering to shoot deer for farmers on permits, the permit is good for a year starting at the beginning of March until the end of February and you need to have the names of people doing the shooting to be listed on the permit and their dnr# and you cannot change or add any until you reapply at the end of February.

Wrong

You can add or change shooters at any time.

How many of you gung ho hunters are going to sit in a tree stand with a shotgun during June July August when they are eating all the beans and half the corn?

 

[Deersniper]

Well I might as well give up on that lease now that SB747 is dead. Liberalizing legal jack lighting by DMP holders.

You know hunters pushing for 747 is a good way to make more land unavailable to hunt

Any farmer that lets a 747 supporter or ducks unlimited member hunt is a fool