Conical vs. Round Ball

[Goose Guy]

Due to a severe apparant lack of supply for .451/.454 balls for my black powder revolver, I have decided to make my own. Doing this would also save me some cash as the bullet mold is less than the price of 2 boxes of balls. When I went on Cablea's I saw they had 2 molds intended for BP revolvers; round ball and conical. I never really heard of conical bullet, but found a picture of it (provided). I was just wondering if anyone has any experience with them and could point me in some direction. Are the conical bullets more difficult to load or the same? Also, is there really a difference in performance between the two?


Most likely I will get the round ball because it seems like it is easiest and it is what I am used to, but the conical look cooler and just appears it would be more accurate. Anyone with any kind of experience is much appreciated.

link to the 2 molds; picture is same on all molds:
round ball - http://www.cabelas.com/p-0012544213716a.shtml
conical - http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...cabelas/en/common/search/search-box.jsp.form1

 

[boule]

The conical bullet is rather for black powder cartidges. When using a muzzleloading revolver, you will damage the conicals when seating them. They make sense in rifles when you choose one made from really soft lead that expands in the bore to seal it (minie bullet) but this will not reliably work in any BP revolver, especially since you can get an out-of battery firing when sparks from a fired chamber ignite other powder charges that are not sealed perfectly.

 

[IndispensableDestiny]

Due to a severe apparant lack of supply for .451/.454 balls for my black powder revolver, I have decided to make my own.

Huh? I just did a quick search online and see no shortage of lead balls. I was in Gander Mountain recently and they had plenty.

 

[Goose Guy]

Huh? I just did a quick search online and see no shortage of lead balls. I was in Gander Mountain recently and they had plenty.

Hmm, I couldn't find anything about a month ago. Guess it comes and goes?

I'm really kind of confused now. I looked up the dirrerences twist makes on whether to use a ball or conical and it appears that round balls work better in slower twist rates like 1:48 or 1:52 and conicals work better in faster rates like 1:28 and 1:32. I just looked on Pietta's site and the gun I have is a 1:30. The round balls weren't terribly accurate, but then I don't have much trigger time with it. Ugh, my head hurts. What have I gotten myself into? Shotguns are so much simpler.

 

[IndispensableDestiny]

Hmm, I couldn't find anything about a month ago. Guess it comes and goes?

I'm really kind of confused now.

What does the manual say? Download it and look. But if you hit what you are pointing at, what's the difference if it's a ball or conical?

 

[JSW]

I find that when shooting BP revolvers you have to play with the charge ( 3f ) to get the round to hit point of aim then stay with that charge.

 

[GNLaFrance]

Conical is heavier, changes the point of impact. Conical has better ballistic coefficient, longer range. Conicals need lube in the grooves and often need to be sized. For normal, everyday use, conicals are a pain in the rear. Stick with balls - they were good enough for J. B. Hickok, and they're good enough for the rest of us.

 

[alucard0822]

I shoot conicals out of my Walker all the time, a 200gr conical over a wonder wad and 40gr of FFFG Swiss or 777 shoots very well, is far more accurate than a ball at longer ranges, and really hits a lot harder, velocities are pretty good, about 1,100+FPS, 600FPE, which is f-in smokin from a BP revolver. With light loads you need a very soft or swaged bullet with a lot of soft lube, at the higher pressures and velocities, a cast bullet designed for 45 colt works well, and with a wonder wad under the bullets using hard "smokeless" lube, they don't lead bad at all. I tried some Buffalo bullet Ball-ETs(very light bullet designed for BP revolvers) from the Walker and the 1860 army, and had good results for both, but the shop I got them from never restocked, and they were a lot more expensive than the cast bullets I load 45 colt with. I have tried 250gr from the Walker over 30gr of powder, and it wasn't as accurate, but thumped pretty hard. The key is that as bullet weight increases, the load must be dramatically decreased, both to keep from blowing up the gun, and because the bullet takes more room than a ball, and doesn't leave as much room for powder. With the Walker, I can shoot greased balls or balls over wads on top of 60gr of powder, and while monstrous for a cap and ball revolver, it is nowhere near as powerful as shooting with conicals

 

[Threeband]

Conicals were widely used at the time of the Civil War, and were loaded in store-bought combustible cartridges.

In Elmer Keith's great book, Sixguns (out of print- but check it out if you get the chance), he tells of an old Civil War veteran he knew as a youth, growing up in Montana. The Old Timer said that in his experience, the round ball was a much better manstopper than the conical, at least in the Navy Colt (.36). He claimed a man hit by one would typically "just crumple up."

 

[Jim Sr]

I shoot the RUGER OLD ARMY
I also hunt deer with it, regulations require 40gr of BP.
The RB allows 41gr of powder, the Conical only allows 38gr.
Using .457 Round Ball, & 41gr of ffffg Goex = 1036 fps. ( ffff in the Ruger only )
I can shoot 2½ in groups @ 40 yards = Venison in the freezer!

Ruger Old Army Manual

View attachment 21883

View attachment 21884

 

[WeaponsCollector]

One of these days I would love to take a deer with my Ruger OA. I've tried conicals I cast myself in .36 cal. and I have a lot of trouble trying to load them. I guess the bases of the bullets are a little too big and they end up going in crooked for me and they get all out of shape. Definitely seems to me like conicals are mostly for use with cartridges. Never had any problems with round balls so I would recommend using them.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Most of the info you found about twist rates was refering to BP Rifles .

Walkers and large dragoons are unique.

Yes there were/ are conicals designed for regular BP revolvers. But round balls are easier, more likely to expand at quasi normal ranges, usually shoot better to POA.

In short, stick with RB unless looking to experement for its own sake.

 

[Goose Guy]

Thanks for the input guys. Seems the general feeling is to stick with round balls because the conicals are a pain. Guess that's what I'll do.

 

[Adams74Chevy]

Also check around online. I bought some from Midway with my C&R discount 1.5yrs ago and they weren't too bad of a price, and I was ordering other stuff at the time. YMMV