Carrying concealed and open carrying an AR pistol in MD .... tested

[camo556]

I only have a few problems with the video.
1) I don’t think they should be putting all of his guns on the trunk of his car. At least ask the guy if he minds or if he has a towel or something.
2) They should check his permit first and if it’s valid I do t believe they should even be running serial numbers. They have no probably cause to believe they’re stolen, it seems like a fishing expedition to me.

Other than those two things, the officers were polite and seemed to treat the situation rather well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Counter to #1:

Dont carry your $4.5 million Cabot's meteorite 1911.
Nor your $4500 Colt Python
Nor your $2000 Staccato C with DLC finish.

Its for self defense. If you need to use it, its going into an evidence locker where a lot worse will happen than getting set on a hood.

 

[BeoBill]

The

The point is…

Why be our own Karens?

Once the practice is common… then we are not faced with taking back our rights by baby steps. Tell them… “Yes, that’s legal.” Let THEM be the ones taking a back seat.

I'm just going to drop in here and go back to lurking, just to make a point that's been implied but not stated clearly, IMO.

In Maryland, as opposed to America, seeing someone OCing is about the same as seeing a velociraptor walking down the street at high noon. It may be minding its own business, Or cleaning its teeth with a toothpick - makes no difference.

But to Jane Six Pack, who has never seen a live velociraptor before and has been trained since birth that velociraptors are deadly and will eat her and her entire family, the velociraptor is a deadly threat. And she will immediately sh1t herself and call the cops. It's an instinctive reaction, because the Government, the school system and the media have trained Jane to view herself as prey and only The State can take care of her. So she is deeply afraid of anything even remotely dangerous.

The cops arrive, and they have never seen a velociraptor either. But they watch the news and may have had to deal with an angry criminal raptor or had a buddy that did, so they are in Condition One and EXTREMELY EDGY when they arrive and see our velociraptor. They don't know if it is state approved and tame, or if it will have them for lunch.

This, I propose, is the background for the OP's Lowe' story. Just adding color. I hope that the USSC will affirm our civil right, and I hope that enough people can exercise it enough for a sighting to be only an event of the same level as seeing a guy in a loud Hawaiian shirt and not a velociraptor. But that's going to take time, and I applaud the OP for being "that guy", and for the cops for not assuming he was a "bad" velociraptor.

 

[davsco]

MD 4-206

yeah but why would they reasonably believe he was in violation of anything? again i don't think the police can or should be asking every driver for their license, nor every person carrying a gun for their permit or 'papers.'

 

[davsco]

Counter to #1:

Dont carry your $4.5 million Cabot's meteorite 1911.
Nor your $4500 Colt Python
Nor your $2000 Staccato C with DLC finish.

Its for self defense. If you need to use it, its going into an evidence locker where a lot worse will happen than getting set on a hood.

i think it was more that the car was getting scratched up, unnecessarily.

 

[RoadDawg]

yeah but why would they reasonably believe he was in violation of anything? again i don't think the police can or should be asking every driver for their license, nor every person carrying a gun for their permit or 'papers.'

The LEOs DID NOT go looking for the man to stop and "ask for papers". They were CALLED there to conduct an investigation.

They conducted the investigation. The man left unmolested, with his pride and guns in tow. (And albeit a bit inconsiderate... possibly a scratched up trunk lid. But that's another issue all together.)

Want to cause a serious problem between the LEO and Gun Owner Communities?
Because obstinance while trying to make the adjustments needed here in this State, is a sure way of turning this into an all out "US Vs. Them" between the two Communities. It is completely unnecessary and will cause harm. BOTH sides are facing an adjustment period of EPIC proportions. Cooperation between the two Communities is imperative for the safe and successful transition to Shall Issue and any possibility of OC.

Our real enemy of BOTH sides... are the Karen Socialist Anti Gunners. Let's save the animosity for THEM and NOT each other. Contention displayed between the LEOs and the GOs, does nothing but FEED the Anti Gunners. They THRIVE on it and use it to bolster their emotional pleas in the media for more gun control.

Hell... If they see the LEOs and the GOs working together... They may even have a sh!t hemorrhage and go scream at the trees and bears somewhere. Then we can watch the bears get indigestion.

 

[RoadDawg]

I'm just going to drop in here and go back to lurking, just to make a point that's been implied but not stated clearly, IMO.

In Maryland, as opposed to America, seeing someone OCing is about the same as seeing a velociraptor walking down the street at high noon. It may be minding its own business, Or cleaning its teeth with a toothpick - makes no difference.

But to Jane Six Pack, who has never seen a live velociraptor before and has been trained since birth that velociraptors are deadly and will eat her and her entire family, the velociraptor is a deadly threat. And she will immediately sh1t herself and call the cops. It's an instinctive reaction, because the Government, the school system and the media have trained Jane to view herself as prey and only The State can take care of her. So she is deeply afraid of anything even remotely dangerous.

The cops arrive, and they have never seen a velociraptor either. But they watch the news and may have had to deal with an angry criminal raptor or had a buddy that did, so they are in Condition One and EXTREMELY EDGY when they arrive and see our velociraptor. They don't know if it is state approved and tame, or if it will have them for lunch.

This, I propose, is the background for the OP's Lowe' story. Just adding color. I hope that the USSC will affirm our civil right, and I hope that enough people can exercise it enough for a sighting to be only an event of the same level as seeing a guy in a loud Hawaiian shirt and not a velociraptor. But that's going to take time, and I applaud the OP for being "that guy", and for the cops for not assuming he was a "bad" velociraptor.

Karen Jane Sixpack can F right off with the others... And she will learn soon enough that the others lied to her about the velociraptor. She will eventually get use to and even like the idea that there are more honest people there to protect her from the real threats she comes into contact with on a daily basis.

This is all about a coming adjustment period. Whatever "norms" we allow to develop during that adjustment period... will be what we are forced to live with AFTER it is done. The self restrictions we allow will become our own self infringements. Therefore we must be careful as to what we give in to. They WILL expect that to become our "rules of carry" here.

 

[BeoBill]

...BOTH sides are facing an adjustment period of EPIC proportions. Cooperation between the two Communities is imperative for the safe and successful transition to Shall Issue and any possibility of OC.

Our real enemy of BOTH sides... are the Karen Socialist Anti Gunners. Let's save the animosity for THEM and NOT each other. Contention displayed between the LEOs and the GOs, does nothing but FEED the Anti Gunners. They THRIVE on it and use it to bolster their emotional pleas in the media for more gun control.

Hell... If they see the LEOs and the GOs working together... They may even have a sh!t hemorrhage and go scream at the trees and bears somewhere. Then we can watch the bears get indigestion.

Which is EXACTLY why I said we need to MARKET the concept. NOT ram it down people's throats. The Karen Socialist Anti Gunners are truly the adversary of both sides (see "Defund the Police"). But they are VASTLY outnumbered by the Joe And Jane Sixpacks. That's where we must put our marketing effort. Because they can easily shout down and shame away the Karen Socialist Anti Gunners. Start with small and easily digested bits until bigger ones can be digested.

 

[RoadDawg]

Which is EXACTLY why I said we need to MARKET the concept. NOT ram it down people's throats. The Karen Socialist Anti Gunners are truly the adversary of both sides (see "Defund the Police"). But they are VASTLY outnumbered by the Joe And Jane Sixpacks. That's where we must put our marketing effort. Because they can easily shout down and shame away the Karen Socialist Anti Gunners. Start with small and easily digested bits until bigger ones can be digested.

See post #246
(I reiterate)

This is all about a coming adjustment period. Whatever "norms" we allow to develop during that adjustment period... will be what we are forced to live with AFTER it is done. The self restrictions we allow will become our own self infringements. Therefore we must be careful as to what we give in to. They WILL expect that to become our "rules of carry" here.

 

[welder516]

Just remember the stores are all private property and you choose to do the OC thing you may be asked to leave. And that is where you would have to move on.

 

[joppaj]

I'm just going to drop in here and go back to lurking, just to make a point that's been implied but not stated clearly, IMO.

In Maryland, as opposed to America, seeing someone OCing is about the same as seeing a velociraptor walking down the street at high noon. It may be minding its own business, Or cleaning its teeth with a toothpick - makes no difference.

But to Jane Six Pack, who has never seen a live velociraptor before and has been trained since birth that velociraptors are deadly and will eat her and her entire family, the velociraptor is a deadly threat. And she will immediately sh1t herself and call the cops. It's an instinctive reaction, because the Government, the school system and the media have trained Jane to view herself as prey and only The State can take care of her. So she is deeply afraid of anything even remotely dangerous.

The cops arrive, and they have never seen a velociraptor either. But they watch the news and may have had to deal with an angry criminal raptor or had a buddy that did, so they are in Condition One and EXTREMELY EDGY when they arrive and see our velociraptor. They don't know if it is state approved and tame, or if it will have them for lunch.

This, I propose, is the background for the OP's Lowe' story. Just adding color. I hope that the USSC will affirm our civil right, and I hope that enough people can exercise it enough for a sighting to be only an event of the same level as seeing a guy in a loud Hawaiian shirt and not a velociraptor. But that's going to take time, and I applaud the OP for being "that guy", and for the cops for not assuming he was a "bad" velociraptor.

I think that's a pretty solid analogy.

Unrelated...

There are absolutely behaviors which are legal, but unusual to the average observer. Carrying a long gun into a suburban Lowe's in such a behavior. I'll be very candid that I have a gun and a spare mag and I'd likely leave if I saw that coming in. The behavior itself is not just uncommon, it's more dangerous to me than the average situation.

If he does have ill intent, he has me outgunned. I don't plan to stay there. A holstered handgun doesn't elicit the same response. I'm as well armed as they are. A concealed, holstered handgun and body armor and I'm right back to looking for an exit or cover. Threat analysis is always based on the totality of the circumstances.

TL;DR: You have the right. People will respond to what they see.

 

[clandestine]

To piss off the sites antigunners, I am going to open carry my AR and handgun this week.

 

[lazarus]

I think we are conditioned not to see guns carry openly in our society. If this is Israel, we would have no problem seeing people carrying their AR15 in the stores, restaurants, or whatever.

The problem is how do we know if it is the good guy or the bad guy until the shooting starts to happen and it is the bad guy?

Relatively few private citizens own firearm in Israel. It isn’t unheard of, but it is significantly less common than the US. Yes, you see a lot more people carrying guns, especially long guns. Because police and the Israeli army have a much larger public presence and generally carry long arms.

 

[lazarus]

I think that's a pretty solid analogy.

Unrelated...

There are absolutely behaviors which are legal, but unusual to the average observer. Carrying a long gun into a suburban Lowe's in such a behavior. I'll be very candid that I have a gun and a spare mag and I'd likely leave if I saw that coming in. The behavior itself is not just uncommon, it's more dangerous to me than the average situation.

If he does have ill intent, he has me outgunned. I don't plan to stay there. A holstered handgun doesn't elicit the same response. I'm as well armed as they are. A concealed, holstered handgun and body armor and I'm right back to looking for an exit or cover. Threat analysis is always based on the totality of the circumstances.

TL;DR: You have the right. People will respond to what they see.

True. Some of it has to do with practicality. Carrying around a slung long gun anywhere is a rather significant encumbrance. You’ve gotta have a good reason, or be kind of a bit nuts to do it.

I don’t see many people wear 65 liter external frame packs around. Empty or loaded. It is rather notable to see that outside of certain, seemingly appropriate circumstances.

You carry a long gun around because you think you’ll probably need to use it or you want to make a statement. You carry around a handgun because you might have to use it.

That’s the difference. And honestly At best it would make me nervous that you think you are going to need to use it (not just maybe it’s possible some day it could happen). Or frankly I am not there for the statement. Go to a protest if you want to make a statement or wear a t-shirt. I am not in the business of possibly making a bunch of strangers around me nervous or upset without really good cause.

Society is the way it is. Sure, it takes time to change it. But I still don’t see what it buys society to normalize carrying around a rifle or shotgun shopping. It honestly sounds like a good way for negligent discharges, muzzling people, and getting your gun caught on stuff or banging it in to other people. Hell, someone with ill intent grabbing it from you. What if you need to put it down to do something, like grab something from a top shelf or bend over to pickup heavy things repeatedly? Now you have no control over your AR sitting in your shopping cart. Even if no one ever has Ill intent with it, it DOES have a level of danger unless everyone who does it with an unloaded long gun. Significantly more danger than carrying an open handgun.

I don’t go in to other people’s private businesses to make a statement. I go there to do business.

 

[lazarus]

Just remember the stores are all private property and you choose to do the OC thing you may be asked to leave. And that is where you would have to move on.

And to add, you may be asked to never return.

 

[rbird7282]

Counter to #1:

Dont carry your $4.5 million Cabot's meteorite 1911.
Nor your $4500 Colt Python
Nor your $2000 Staccato C with DLC finish.

Its for self defense. If you need to use it, its going into an evidence locker where a lot worse will happen than getting set on a hood.

I wasn't worried about the guns, it was really about the car's paint.

 

[TheOriginalMexicanBob]

Many years ago…late 70s or early ‘80s…when Shipley’s Sporting Goods was located in downtown Frederick, a buddy purchased a 1927A1 Thompson Carbine and simply carried it openly home which was several blocks away. Nobody batted an eye he said.

Today someone would call 9-1-1 and ask for a SWAT response.

 

[Slackdaddy]

I find it obnoxious. If you have a business selling ass cream, you get an unrestricted permit. Put a gun to my head and tell me what to prescribe you, I’ll do it. It will go through. Anywhere in the country. From my phone. I can prescribe a million dollars of OxyContin in a short period of time. From my iPhone. They balk at giving me a permit at all.

Wait!? You know someone who can get us a discount on ass cream ???

 

[teratos]

Wait!? You know someone who can get us a discount on ass cream ???

Yeah, of course. Organic.

 

[Slackdaddy]

"I support the second amendment butt"

brah have you been outside MD?

What I find crazy about MD gun culture is even the pro gun people are anti gun. like shhhhh dont tell people I have guns. you don't want to scare the Karen's. I've been told this is a symptom of battered gun owner symptom.

The OP is doing it to educate people on their rights.

You just noticed that?? Did you miss the "What are you watching on netflix" mega thread? or the Amazon, NFL and MLB threads?? Many "Pro Gun People" willingly fund anti gun organizations and companies. Do you know how many "pro gun people" stop at Dunkin donuts every morning ??

 

[outrider58]

You just noticed that?? Did you miss the "What are you watching on netflix" mega thread? or the Amazon, NFL and MLB threads?? Many "Pro Gun People" willingly fund anti gun organizations and companies. Do you know how many "pro gun people" stop at Dunkin donuts every morning ??

I won't wear Levis and I have given Ford the heave-ho. We picks our poisons.