CA4 Issues Stay, Expedites Appeal

[cantonglocker]

This is literally a court saying they don't want to rock the boat.

their job isn't to "not rock the boat" its to protect my constitutional rights.

 

[OnTarget]

I am disappointed greatly. This was simply a punt. Esq and others all said upfront that the merits went our way, but that the court could simply punt. There is no way they went through hundreds of pages of docs in 24 hours. They just tossed it for the next panel, at least speeding things up along the way.

For those of you with outstanding permits...just hold a little bit. I should have some more info in a day or so. We are asking for official written determination from the MSP Superintendent on what they are going to do, and we are prepared to act legislatively next week to hold those in abeyance if that is what it takes. I say that after having worked details with Annapolis in the last few hours.

It's not idle chat. We will piss in Mike Miller's Special Session Punch Bowl if that is what it takes.

We may be on hold, but we won't be stopped.

Note: IMHO, FWIW, this stay is merely an extension of the previous stay, which hadn't yet expired. MSP should continue to hold the 365 permits (+-), until stay is resolved. It's common sense, if that counts for anything.

 

[shawn]

All good questions:

Appeals are heard by a panel of three judges selected by the clerk under a rotation system. See CA4 Local rules

With an argument in late October, the panel is likely to rule....when the panel decides to rule. That said, the case has been expedited. I expect the panel to give it expedited treatment. Maybe 3 months? I have had rulings in much less time. I also have a current case in the 9th Circuit where I am still waiting for a decision after argument was held in September of 2010. But that extraordinary, even for the 9th Circuit (it won't happen here in this case).

I think it quite likely that the loser will seek rehearing en banc. I would . How likely it would be granted is unknowable now. One of the en banc criteria is inter-circuit conflict and that is quite possible given the pendency of appeals now in the CA3 and the CA1 and the CA7.

En banc, if granted could easily add months, maybe a year. The court may or may not order new briefs. It would almost certainly order en banc oral argument. Great fun, BTW (I've done several). Then you got wait for a decision, which takes longer because, more likely than not, there are going to be one or more dissenting opinions to be written and circulated and debated within chambers. It's a big deal.

A SCT petition by the loser is also likely, but the odds on that being granted are also right now unknowable. Again, one of the cert factors is inter-circuit conflict and we just don't know anything about that yet.

Welcome to the big leagues. Don't forget to duck the bean balls.

esq,

Thanks for all the info.

It seems like all this wont be settled for a good long time. I am glad that now I have a realistic time frame now.

 

[PvtHike]

Well, disappointed but not surprised. Changes my plans a little bit. Guess I'll go to the range when I was planning to get printed.

 

[fightinbluhen51]

What are the damages due to those who applied and were denied when the G&S reason is found unconstitutional? Does the state just get away with it or is there a penalty to be paid? Can I lock up someone in my basement for years, then have a court tell me I am wrong and walk away? NO! This is complete bullsh*t. Is this our system? Yes. Is it fair? NO!

Sure makes vigilante justice seem appropriate (even though we don't really believe that).

 

[Mike OTDP]

Actually, I figure that the quick stay was not unreasonable.

Here in Deep Southern Maryland, getting an application organized is a lot of legwork. Fill out the forms, go get photos taken (and pay for that), then drive an hour each way for fingerprinting (and pay for that, too). How many folks were going to be spending this weekend getting ready to apply? Quite aside from the application fee?

No. If a stay was going to be issued - and this case is a BFD, a stay was more likely than not - the sooner, the less impact.

And maybe the horse will sing. The smartest thing for the state legislature to do at this point would be to throw us into the briar patch...go to shall-issue, raise the price to around $300, and rake in the revenue.

 

[dlmcbm]

I bet livescan locations are going to have a lot of missed appointments.

 

[fightinbluhen51]

Then don't have a protest, have a "picnic" at some public park.

Perhaps we could still have it at lawyers mall but sponsored by subway and starbucks?

 

[fightinbluhen51]

We've been working the special session and our latest indication is nothing 2A related is going to come up - Miller wants a clean slate and it is recognized that anything anti-2A would gum up the works. And trust me when I say we would gum it up bad.

More later.

LET THEM EAT CAKE! Oh...but yeah...if they EVEN try...I'd be in my car to brave the elements and go meet face to face with my reps AND the senate Pres and Speaker of the House...

 

[Squaredout]

Actually, I figure that the quick stay was not unreasonable.

Here in Deep Southern Maryland, getting an application organized is a lot of legwork. Fill out the forms, go get photos taken (and pay for that), then drive an hour each way for fingerprinting (and pay for that, too). How many folks were going to be spending this weekend getting ready to apply? Quite aside from the application fee?

No. If a stay was going to be issued - and this case is a BFD, a stay was more likely than not - the sooner, the less impact.

And maybe the horse will sing. The smartest thing for the state legislature to do at this point would be to throw us into the briar patch...go to shall-issue, raise the price to around $300, and rake in the revenue.

And rake in the revenue they will 365x75.00=27,375.00 they may not have worked all the apps.

 

[fightinbluhen51]

I guess when your the AG you don't have to work that hard on your briefs because it seems when good briefs are presented it means very little.

You know who else deserves a swift kick to the ballocks in this? The Maryland GOP. They couldn't even run Micky Friggin' Mouse against Gansler. Seriously...the "establishment" in this is pathetic! Bad even...

 

[Garet Jax]

Sure makes vigilante justice seem appropriate (even though we don't really believe that).

This is exactly why the founding fathers had to fight the British to establish their own rules for a Country. The FFs are probably ashamed of us and what we have let the Country become.

 

[OnTarget]

I bet livescan locations are going to have a lot of missed appointments.

Yes, but many livescan locations make you pay upfront. such as the one in Hagerstown. My wife has one scheduled for Aug. 8. I don't know if I can get my money back. It was scheduled about a week ago by credit card. Doesn't one have 30 days to get back money using credit card? Not sure!

 

[aray]

We are prepared to act legislatively next week to hold those in abeyance if that is what it takes. I say that after having worked details with Annapolis in the last few hours.

It's not idle chat. We will piss in Mike Miller's Special Session Punch Bowl if that is what it takes.

We may be on hold, but we won't be stopped.

I'm drinking lots of water as we speak...

Edit:

Seriously those of you frustrated at this Stay (and everyone should count themselves in that group) you should channel that energy into the upcoming battle with the special session. Take out your frustrations on them. Melt their phone lines, overload their email servers, and camp out in their offices. CA4 will work itself out in due course - but this is something we can actually affect, here and now. And each individual can (indeed must) contribute.

Wait until MSI has a specific legislative target to react to, but then be prepared to move quickly and forcefully after that.

 

[fightinbluhen51]

Meanwhile I had three more applicants I was shepading to apply after the previously scheduled August lift. Have to call them back to file for. Year or two. I fear after this second time I will be loosing my credability to recruit more *non-core* applicants for next time. But that is probably one of the goals to marginalize us.

Co-opt them and challenge them to join MSI.

Perhaps it's time WE citizens start using the power of the lobby and the referendum (when they actually pass bad bills).

 

[Garet Jax]

Yes, but many livescan locations make you pay upfront. such as the one in Hagerstown. My wife has one scheduled for Aug. 8. I don't know if I can get my money back. It was scheduled about a week ago by credit card. Doesn't one have 30 days to get back money using credit card? Not sure!

Good luck - the government is very hard to get money out of...

You will likely need to do a charge back on your CC in order to get the money back.

Wouldn't surprise me if the government throws you in a FPMITAP for doing a charge back.

 

[cantonglocker]

I am disappointed greatly. This was simply a punt. Esq and others all said upfront that the merits went our way, but that the court could simply punt. There is no way they went through hundreds of pages of docs in 24 hours. They just tossed it for the next panel, at least speeding things up along the way.

For those of you with outstanding permits...just hold a little bit. I should have some more info in a day or so. We are asking for official written determination from the MSP Superintendent on what they are going to do, and we are prepared to act legislatively next week to hold those in abeyance if that is what it takes. I say that after having worked details with Annapolis in the last few hours.

It's not idle chat. We will piss in Mike Miller's Special Session Punch Bowl if that is what it takes.

We may be on hold, but we won't be stopped.

go further, we all should piss in his punch bowl unless he can get a shall issue law passed.

 

[OnTarget]

Good luck - the government is very hard to get money out of...

You will likely need to do a charge back on your CC in order to get the money back.

Wouldn't surprise me if the government throws you in a FPMITAP for doing a charge back.

Mine was a commercial concern (MorphoTrust), not government, I think.

 

[556ready]

Sorry to those who lost money, yes it sucks our rights are still being denied BUT the fight is not over keep supporting MSI keep up the fight! We lost the battle but we can still win the war!!!

 

[fightinbluhen51]

I am disappointed greatly. This was simply a punt. Esq and others all said upfront that the merits went our way, but that the court could simply punt. There is no way they went through hundreds of pages of docs in 24 hours. They just tossed it for the next panel, at least speeding things up along the way.

For those of you with outstanding permits...just hold a little bit. I should have some more info in a day or so. We are asking for official written determination from the MSP Superintendent on what they are going to do, and we are prepared to act legislatively next week to hold those in abeyance if that is what it takes. I say that after having worked details with Annapolis in the last few hours.

It's not idle chat. We will piss in Mike Miller's Special Session Punch Bowl if that is what it takes.

We may be on hold, but we won't be stopped.

PERMISSION FROM AN MSI MEMBER TO IPFREELY!