C&R positives and negatives?

[Americus]

Hello,

I've been on the fence over applying for a C&R for some time now.
However, my tin foil hat is whispering in my ear. Is anyone concerned that having the licence makes you a prime target for confiscation if, say, martial law is declared? This came up when I read a post about notifying the CLEO about the C&R because there may be a "large quantity of firearms" at that location.
If, in the future, you move, will you need to notify a new CLEO?

I realize that the $30 fee will negate itself in not having to pay transfer fees.
I also know about the C&R discounts.
It seems like after 10/1 it may be the only sane way to get collectible handguns.
Apart from being broke, are there any other reasons to NOT get a C&R?

 

[CasualObserver]

It is my understanding that you don't notify the CLEO because there may be a "large quantity of firearms" at that location, rather it is their notice that if they have reason to oppose your getting a C&R FFL 03, they should contact the ATF right away. To that end, I don't believe you have to notify the new local CLEO when moving.

I've had mine a little over a year and the only negative I can say is that I have spent A LOT more $ on firearms then I ever would in a given year since acquiring my C&R FFL 03.

 

[UpperMarlboroMan]

I second what CasualObserver said...the only real problem is the drain on the finances. It really makes it so easy to get firearms shipped directly to your house. You make a small mental list of what you want...but then it just explodes exponentially. "Well, I guess I don't have a 1946 M44 yet and they have them for $250...sure what the hell!" The real issue I had was finding and buying all the ammo. You might initially stick to just one or two calibers to keep it easy...just 7.62x54r for rifles and something else for pistols. Unfortunately for pistols, the 7.62x25 mm ammo is getting more expensive as more of the Toks are becoming available.

 

[A1Uni]

Tinfoil.

If they wanted to start grabbing guns they would go after for-profit FFLs who buy hundreds of guns a week, and from there the 4473s those same FFLs retain.

03 FFL is a great tool and time saver if you like the old stuff.

 

[Mark75H]

I have serious doubts that many CLEO's hold on to C&R letters (its not about a hoard, its about whether they think you are already a known criminal) ... its just more junk paperwork to pile up; MoCo might, but I would not be paranoid about it; so far I don't see much ability of the govt to put 2+2 to this kind of thing ...

The risk of buying C&R stuff because its a 'deal' and 'because you can' is definitely the worst part.

Go for it

 

[Docster]

Aside from the financial drain that is inevitable, the only risks are the theoretical 'what ifs' that come up from time to time.

 

[Alphabrew]

Worst thing about a C&R is the financial drain. It's like giving a license to buy crack to a crackhead.

 

[Mooseman]

Positive, easy access to cool old toys. Negative, empty wallet.

 

[Arcamm]

pro; massive inflow of neat old firearms.

con; massive outflow of hard earned cash.

 

[A1Uni]

Think about the logic of fearing local PDs knowing you have a C&R. It is as if people think the ATF keeps that info secret and locked away. The local PD could get it anytime they wanted to if they were so inclined.

There are so many ways to track gun ownership other than a collector's license. Besides, unless someone looks at your A&D book, they have no idea what you have, and very few 03 License holders ever get checked.

Go for it. It keeps you from having to pay me $50 to have that Mosin, Garand or Mauser etc mailed in from out of state and transferred.

 

[j8064]

You have two questions there:

Hello,

I've been on the fence over applying for a C&R for some time now.
However, my tin foil hat is whispering in my ear. #1) Is anyone concerned that having the licence makes you a prime target for confiscation if, say, martial law is declared? This came up when I read a post about notifying the CLEO about the C&R because there may be a "large quantity of firearms" at that location.
#2) If, in the future, you move, will you need to notify a new CLEO?
I realize that the $30 fee will negate itself in not having to pay transfer fees.
I also know about the C&R discounts.
It seems like after 10/1 it may be the only sane way to get collectible handguns.
Apart from being broke, are there any other reasons to NOT get a C&R?

#1) Really? Don't you think they'd go after a cache of evil AR's long before they get around to Mosins and Mausers? As if they don't already know what you "could" have? Remove tinfoil.
#2) Yes. if you move your collection you'll need to submit a change of address to BATFE and copy your new CLEO. Very simple to do.

Oh, and do factor in the capital investment for large safes. That goes hand-in-hand with having a C&R.

 

[Threeband]

If you have ever purchased a Regulated Firearm in Maryland, you are already on the List.

O'MALLEY: WE MAP THE LOCATION OF GUN OWNERS AND CCW HOLDERS HOMES!
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=15643


More interesting reading here:
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=103224


On the other hand, I don't think Maryland is very concerned about, or even aware of, C&R license holders. I would expect the MSP, and maybe Monkey County to keep the CLEO letters they receive, but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the Sheriffs just toss theirs.

The CLEO letter, and even the Bound Book, has a lot to do with keeping bureaucrats busy thinking up paperwork and regulations, and only a little to do with serving a purpose.

Who is the CLEO? A frequent question around here! There is no correct answer! Don't believe me? Just try this simple experiment. Get the Chief of the MSP, the Monkey County Sheriff, the Monkey County Police Chief, and the Rock-thesda Police Chief, get them drunk and lock them in a room, then ask them "Which one of you is the Chief Law Enforcement Officer?" They will argue among themselves, they may come to physical blows, but I'll bet you twenty bucks (Confederate) they will never agree. Each will claim to be Chief.

Send the CLEO letter to the Sheriff. Include a short cover letter, very dry and legalistic:

Dear Sheriff Goodguy,

Enclosed is your copy of Federal Form 123-XYZ. It requires no action on your part.

Sincerely,
Americus

Whoever opens the letter will probably shite-can it anyway. No one from the ATF will ask who you mailed the form to, or confirm that you did. You can justify mailing it to any of those rival CLEOs.

Enjoy your FFL for three years. Let it expire without renewing it. Shred your Bound Book, wait four months, and get a new C&R.

 

[MedInfantry]

I've been a C&R holder since 2010 and it's paid for itself. As part of my application to the ATF, I dropped some letter notifying the Sheriff for HoCo along with the copy of my ATF application. By Federal law you must keep a record of all transactions with your C&R license. When I dropped my at the HoCo Sheriff's Office, the deputies looked at me like *whatever* and told me to drop the application and letter into the Sheriff's inbox. Never heard back from them.

I haven't turned over a list or record of my transactions to the State of Maryland or the Federals and haven't been asked.

 

[Threeband]

There is some small print on the CLEO form, informing the CLEO that this is their opportunity to squawk if they know you to be a loose cannon. They have no say in the approval of the license, no right to inspect your Bound Book, no authority over your Federal license.

The ATF may inspect your records by scheduling an audit.The few audits I've heard of seemed more concerned with the bureaucratic niceties of the record-keeping than with any actual firearms. They don't seem to care much about the guns, just the entries in the Book.

Then when your license runs out after three years, you may shred your Bound Book. Probably no one will ever see it but you.

 

[planktonadbc]

Agree and confirmed... I visited the local MSP barracks to turn in my paperwork, they looked at me and said its the Fred. Chief of Police is the POC for this. So I called Fred.City. talked to the Second in Command (no names) he said it was the MSP is charge of all firearms licensees with the ATF. I told him I was just over at the barracks and what they said. I told him the MSP name and he would call. So later he was nice and said drop or mail it to the Fred. City Chief of Police. There is confusing of the responsibility on the C&R form. Not sure if the Chief of Fred is pro-2A or not?

 

[Threeband]

...MSP ...said its the Fred. Chief of Police ... Fred.Co. ... said it was the MSP ...

Try getting them both drunk, then lock them in a room and let them fight it out.

Not sure if the Chief of Fred is pro-2A or not?

It doesn't matter. He has no say or jurisdiction. It's just an opportunity for him to tell the ATF that you're a drunken brawler known to kick puppy dogs for no reason.


It really doesn't matter who you mail it to, as long as that person can reasonably be considered some sort of Chief Law Enforcement Officer with jurisdiction where you live.

Some will say it's the most local, such as the Town or City CLEO.
Some will say it's the least local, such as the Chief of the State Police.
Some say it's the Sheriff.

There is no single right answer.

Nobody cares. Nobody will ask you about it. It's just a bureaucratic peculiarity of the application process.
Send it to somebody: there will be no record, because they will probably throw it in the trash.

Meanwhile, why hand deliver it?
By hand delivering it, you just increase the confusion.
Just drop it in the mail. That's all you're required to do.
Don't over think it, don't over complicate it.


Mail the CLEO copy to one of the various CLEOs.
You have fulfilled the requirement.
Now don't worry about it.

 

[planktonadbc]

Try getting them both drunk, then lock them in a room and let them fight it out. It doesn't matter. He has no say or jurisdiction. It's just an opportunity for him to tell the ATF that you're a drunken brawler known to kick puppy dogs for no reason.
There is no single right answer. Nobody cares. Nobody will ask you about it. It's just a bureaucratic peculiarity of the application process.
Send it to somebody: there will be no record, because they will probably throw it in the trash. Meanwhile, why hand deliver it? By hand delivering it, you just increase the confusion. Just drop it in the mail. That's all you're required to do. Don't over think it, don't over complicate it. Mail the CLEO copy to one of the various CLEOs.
You have fulfilled the requirement.
Now don't worry about it.

Haha that's funny. It worked anyway and I have my license now. It was just the run around. I was downtown at the time and hand carried it to the court house police station. They didn't care, they said they will give it to him. Just bought a SKS type 56 from classic with it :-).

 

[falconguy]

I give a copy of my renewal app to my local Chief every three years. No problems yet.

 

[brewergeek]

Agree and confirmed... I visited the local MSP barracks to turn in my paperwork, they looked at me and said its the Fred. Chief of Police is the POC for this. So I called Fred.Co. talked to the Second in Command (no names) he said it was the MSP is charge of all firearms licensees with the ATF. I told him I was just over at the barracks and what they said. I told him the MSP name and he would call. So later he was nice and said drop or mail it to the Fred Chief of Police. There is confusing of the responsibility on the C&R form. Not sure if the Chief of Fred is pro-2A or not?

Not sure about the Chief, but the sheriff is VERY pro-2A. A co-worker of mine has worked with him in the past and talks about how the sheriff wants the MSP to get out of the CCW biz and have it on the county sheriff level. The reasoning being the sheriff knows the people in his county better than an office in Annapolis.

 

[planktonadbc]

Haha that's funny. It worked anyway and I have my license now. It was just the run around. I was downtown at the time and hand carried it to the court house police station. They didn't care, they said they will give it to him. Just bought a SKS type 56 from classic with it :-).

I typo, Fred Co., Should be Frederick City.. so the Chief would be my CLEO..

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