Black powder revolver question

[novus collectus]

You can carry a loaded 44 mag while deer hunting, you cannot carry the same gun on the street, same as on the range. Getting convicted and getting arrested are two different things.

YOu miss my point of my post, the specific mention of "explosive devise" is what I was responding to. If a loaded cylinder is an "explosive device", then even having one on the range would be technically illegal.

(c) Explosive material.
(1) "Explosive material" means material that
explodes when detonated and has a destructive
capability.
(2) "Explosive material" includes:
(i) Explosives as defined in § 11-101 of the
Public Safety Article; and
(ii) Dynamite for construction work, ammonium
nitrate, natural gas in pipelines or storage
tanks, ether, and cannisterized oxygen for health
care facilities.
(3) "Explosive material" does not include
items excluded from explosives in § 11-101 of
the Public Safety Article when the items are
used in their original configuration.

4-502. Scope of subtitle. This subtitle does
not apply to:...


... (4) A person who possesses smokeless or
black gunpowder under Title 11, Subtitle 1 of the
Public Safety Article and uses the gunpowder for
loading or reloading small arms ammunition, antique
firearms, or replicas of antique firearms.

§ 11-101. Definitions.

...(c) Explosives.-

(1) "Explosives" means gunpowder, powders for blasting, high explosives, blasting materials, fuses other than electric circuit breakers, detonators and other detonating agents, smokeless powder, and any chemical compound or mechanical mixture that contains oxidizing and combustible units or other ingredients in such proportions, quantities, or packing that ignition by fire, friction, concussion, percussion, or detonation of any part of the compound or mixture may and is intended to cause an explosion.

(2) "Explosives" includes bombs and destructive devices designed to operate by chemical, mechanical, or explosive action.

(3) "Explosives" does not include fixed ammunition for small arms [if it is in the cylinder one could argue it is now "fixed"], small arms ammunition primers, small arms percussion caps, safety and pyrotechnic fuses, quills, quick and slow matches, friction primers, fireworks, or common matches when used in their original configuration.

(d) Explosives for use in firearms.- "Explosives for use in firearms" means:

(1) smokeless powder for loading or reloading small arms ammunition; or

(2) black powder for loading or reloading small arms ammunition, antique arms, or replicas of antique arms.

NOw about the part about getting arrested, if you are not breaking the law then they may only have to be sued once to learn their lesson not to arrest you a second time for doing the same legal activity.
I do not want to be the test case and I don't think anyone else does either, but we should stop fearing laws which do not exist IMO. We should find out and get on paper just what the understood reading of the law is by the AG's office and then if we are arrested the situation will be quickly resolved by simply showing the letter and another department will be educated not to do that again. We should be more proactive with our state gun laws and stop cowering at the notion of being arrested. Many brave people in VA, DE and PA have been making a point of being public with their practice of RKBA and maybe it is time we did the same.

If open carry of loaded antique handguns is legal in MD and we can get this on paper from the Attorney General's office, then maybe it is time to start pushing the envelope.

 

[kalister1]

I agree 100%, just wondering what it takes to become an explosive device?

 

[novus collectus]

I agree 100%, just wondering what it takes to become an explosive device?

Actually I think there are two descriptions but neither uses the phrase "explosive device" for MD law as I understand it. It is either a "destructive device" or an "explosive". There are exceptions made for small arms "explosives" (powders) and fireworks and signalling devices, but other than that the definition for DD is so broad it could be just about anything that goes pop or boom.

Subtitle 5. Destructive Devices.
4-501. Definitions.
(a) In general. In this subtitle the following
words have the meanings indicated.
(b) Destructive device.
(1) "Destructive device" means explosive
material, incendiary material, or toxic material
that is:
(i) Combined with a delivery or detonating apparatus
so as to be capable of inflicting injury to
persons or damage to property; or
(ii) Deliberately modified, containerized, or
otherwise equipped with a special delivery, activation,
or detonation component that gives the
material destructive characteristics of a military
ordnance.
(2) "Destructive device" includes a bomb, grenade,
mine, shell, missile, flamethrower, poison
gas, Molotov cocktail, pipe bomb, and petroleum-
soaked ammonium nitrate.

 

[BenL]

So what could they charge you with for carrying an unloaded cap and ball revolver? Its not considered a firearm. Its not dangerous if its not loaded. I just don't see what charge they could use to lock you up.

Disturbing the piece.

 

[novus collectus]

Disturbing the piece.

Where does that fit here and any examples in the courts?

Article - Criminal Law

§ 10-201.

(a) (1) In this section the following words have the meanings indicated.

(2) (i) "Public conveyance" means a conveyance to which the public or a portion of the public has access to and a right to use for transportation.

(ii) "Public conveyance" includes an airplane, vessel, bus, railway car, school vehicle, and subway car.

(3) (i) "Public place" means a place to which the public or a portion of the public has access and a right to resort for business, dwelling, entertainment, or other lawful purpose.

(ii) "Public place" includes:

1. a restaurant, shop, shopping center, store, tavern, or other place of business;

2. a public building;

3. a public parking lot;

4. a public street, sidewalk, or right-of-way;

5. a public park or other public grounds;

6. the common areas of a building containing four or more separate dwelling units, including a corridor, elevator, lobby, and stairwell;

7. a hotel or motel;

8. a place used for public resort or amusement, including an amusement park, golf course, race track, sports arena, swimming pool, and theater;

9. an institution of elementary, secondary, or higher education;

10. a place of public worship;

11. a place or building used for entering or exiting a public conveyance, including an airport terminal, bus station, dock, railway station, subway station, and wharf; and

12. the parking areas, sidewalks, and other grounds and structures that are part of a public place.

(b) For purposes of a prosecution under this section, a public conveyance or a public place need not be devoted solely to public use.

(c) (1) A person may not willfully and without lawful purpose obstruct or hinder the free passage of another in a public place or on a public conveyance.

(2) A person may not willfully act in a disorderly manner that disturbs the public peace.

(3) A person may not willfully fail to obey a reasonable and lawful order that a law enforcement officer makes to prevent a disturbance to the public peace.

(4) A person who enters the land or premises of another, whether an owner or lessee, or a beach adjacent to residential riparian property, may not willfully:

(i) disturb the peace of persons on the land, premises, or beach by making an unreasonably loud noise; or

(ii) act in a disorderly manner.

(5) A person from any location may not, by making an unreasonably loud noise, willfully disturb the peace of another:

(i) on the other's land or premises;

(ii) in a public place; or

(iii) on a public conveyance.

(6) In Worcester County, a person may not build a bonfire or allow a bonfire to burn on a beach or other property between 1 a.m. and 5 a.m.

(d) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to imprisonment not exceeding 60 days or a fine not exceeding $500 or both.

I can see waving a gun around as disturbing the peace, but if just having a gun in a holster or carrying one around on a sling over the shoulder is potentially disturbing the peace, then a lot of hunters and people who just bought a rifle walking to their car better watch out because they could be arrested for doing something they thought was legal too.

 

[kalister1]

That is my point about Destructive Device. If it is not a firearm, it could be a "Pipe Bomb" ? It is my understanding that the Open Carry charge in States that allow it, is Disturbing the peace. The Lady from PA that just recently got murdered by her husband was charged with Disturbing the Peace when the Sheriff took her permit. She won in court.

 

[c&rdaze]

Getting back to the DNR regs, the Hunting and Trapping guide says that muzzle loading arms must be .40 caliber or greater and handguns must have a barrel lenght of 6" with at least 700 foot-lbs of muzzle energy.

Now if you had a cap and ball pistol in .36 caliber or such, it would not be a hunting class arm. would it than not be exempt from the DNR regs. As well as the handgun transport regs as it would be classed as a non-firearm?

Just asking to continue the headache of trying to figure this out.

 

[Bigdtc]

Getting back to the DNR regs, the Hunting and Trapping guide says that muzzle loading arms must be .40 caliber or greater and handguns must have a barrel lenght of 6" with at least 700 foot-lbs of muzzle energy.

Now if you had a cap and ball pistol in .36 caliber or such, it would not be a hunting class arm. would it than not be exempt from the DNR regs. As well as the handgun transport regs as it would be classed as a non-firearm?

Just asking to continue the headache of trying to figure this out.

Thats a good question. I read the DNR regs and those conditions apply specifically to deer hunting. The problem is that you can use smaller calibers for small game so, I would say it (cap & ball), still applies the hunting regs.
Also, using that logic, you would only be able to carry it during the hunting off-season which is, technically, never. Groundhogs and coyotes are able to be hunted 24/7/365.

 

[MotoJ]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but this came up as relevant in my search about transporting black powder pistols.

Read the whole thing, and my head hurts, and I'm still not sure if I'm 100% clear about whether one or the other needs to be locked up (powder/ammo & weapon), or if they need to be separated in the vehicle.

I have a couple new wrinkles- potentially I would be driving to the range in either my pickup truck or my motorcycle & sidecar rig. Am I OK just putting my locking box of pistols and supplies behind the seat of my truck or in the sidecar? Or should it go in the bed of the truck? Would the sidecar rig just not be an option for transport?

 

[mach37]

In this day & age of edgy law enforcement officers, many probably do not know the difference between a BP revolver and a modern gun. I would NOT expect any one of them to welcome a pistol of any sort on the streets, OR in a bank or school, without challenging the carrier. Expect all the rules and regulations to (possibly) save you in court, but do NOT expect them to protect you from being detained for lengthy questioning.