Billet vs. Forged Lowers

[hodgepodge]

I'm getting ready to buy 2 or 3 lowers before they say I can't.

I see that forged lowers are less expensive than billet lowers. Is the price difference something I should ignore and just go for it? (My gut.)

What is the difference? Despite the fact that I own a pair of cargo pants, I'm not really a tactical operator.

Thanks.

 

[smdub]

Pound for pound forging is stronger than extruded then machined (which was never actually a "billet" but they misuse the term because it sounds cool like "aircraft aluminum".) Machined from block lowers can make up for this by being a little thicker in some places and weighing slightly more.

AFAIK, Military uses forgings w/ all the features they deemed necessary. Machined from blank stock allows manufacturers to do unique things. Noveske has some w/ large flared magwells as an example. Some things are purely for asthetics (which has its place too.) As long as the machining of either source was done w/ the same level of precision/care they will operate identically.

 

[jrumann59]

Forged uppers and lowers for the most part will be more true to spec inside and out. Billets are a little more "chunky" due to added material at stress points they will be in spec where it counts but things like beta mags, BAD levers may not work properly. Both are fine for use as a firearm. The biggest difference of cost is because of the manufacturing process, one uses forging and the other is cut from a chunk of aluminum, CNC machines and processes are expensive.

 

[BenL]

Pound for pound forging is stronger than extruded then machined (which was never actually a "billet" but they misuse the term because it sounds cool like "aircraft aluminum".) Machined from block lowers can make up for this by being a little thicker in some places and weighing slightly more.

AFAIK, Military uses forgings w/ all the features they deemed necessary. Machined from blank stock allows manufacturers to do unique things. Noveske has some w/ large flared magwells as an example. Some things are purely for asthetics (which has its place too.) As long as the machining of either source was done w/ the same level of precision/care they will operate identically.

Noveske's flared lowers are forged.

As said above, for all practical purposes, aesthetics are essentially the only difference. One may be slightly stronger than the other, but it won't make a difference in your application.

 

[Yoshi]

... but it won't make a difference in your application.

Hey BenL! In what situations well the difference be noted?

 

[alpine44]

Has someone found a forged or billet lower that will fit very tightly on an upper?

For tech heads: The distance between center of pin holes and top of mating surface with upper has a tolerance specified. From my observation of "mil-spec" lowers, even the big names moved to a looser fit in recent years.

 

[HarCo2ANewb]

Hey BenL! In what situations well the difference be noted?

I have a Seekins Billet Lower that will not, like jrumann mentioned and much to my chagrin, fit my beta mag

 

[BenL]

Hey BenL! In what situations well the difference be noted?

Some products won't fit some lowers with unusual features. For instance, my 3 gun AR is a Noveske and it has a flared lower; Surefire's high cap mags won't fit it. I also know that some of the billet lowers that have unusual dimensions won't allow some non-standard parts (like Magpul's BAD lever.)

As far as strength, I remember one company that makes BMG uppers recommended forged lowers only for their uppers (I forget who it was.) I would just use a steel AR lower, but that's just me.

 

[ObsceneJesster]

More attention to detail can be made with Billet lowers. More often then not, you will see designs in Billet lowers that you won't see and are impossible to do with a forging. If it is done right, a machined lower can be more precise then a forging. The Billet is being cut from a block of aluminum while the forging is being pored and then pressed into its shape.

Billet lowers will also have the trigger guard built in. The forged lowers do not and you are required to install the trigger guard with roll pins.

There are also some other features you mostly see on Billet lowers such as tension screws. It is a little allen head screw that sits in the base of the lower if you look down into it from the top. When you install the upper, if you find it has to much play in it, you can just turn the tension screw until you create a perfect fit.

When it comes to tinsel strength, it's a moot point when comparing forged vs. Billet lowers. Either one of them will be more than strong enough to meet the needs of an AR-15 lower.

My personal experience. I have both and I would buy either one over and over again. I will say that the BCM upper I just put on a custom Billet lower fit together like they were made for each other. It easily slides into place but there isn't even the slightest bit of play between the two.

 

[ObsceneJesster]

Has someone found a forged or billet lower that will fit very tightly on an upper?

For tech heads: The distance between center of pin holes and top of mating surface with upper has a tolerance specified. From my observation of "mil-spec" lowers, even the big names moved to a looser fit in recent years.

Yup, I just put a BCM upper on a custom Billet lower and they went together like they were made for each other. There is no play whatsoever.

 

[sailskidrive]

I have three billet lowers in my collection. As mentioned the external dimensions can pose a few challenging issues when installing after market accessories.

The trigger guard on my Tactical Innovations lower is a little sharp around the trigger housing and it protrudes beyond a section of the grip normally covered which makes it a little uncomfortable at times and limits which aftermarket grips I can use.

If you're going to buy a billet lower I would recommend purchasing the matching billet upper from the same manufacturer as they are usually perfect aesthetic and dimensional matches.

My favorite billet lower is made by Black Rain Ordnance, POF would be second.

 

[smdub]

you will see designs in Billet lowers that you won't see and are impossible to do with a forging. If it is done right, a machined lower can be more precise then a forging. The Billet is being cut from a block of aluminum while the forging is being pored and then pressed into its shape.

Precision has to do w/ the machining operations that both have to go through. The initial shape of the base stock has nothing to do with it. The unmachined outer surfaces of a forging do have a tolerance spec. But since they don't touch or reference anything it doesn't matter.

There are also some other features you mostly see on Billet lowers such as tension screws.

Those can be machined just the same into the forger lower. Just depends on the company doing it.

When it comes to tinsel strength, it's a moot point

I hate tinsel strength. My popcorn strands always break and fall off the christmas tree too

 

[Traveler]

I hate tinsel strength. My popcorn strands always break and fall off the christmas tree too

Grammar nazi.

tensile anyone?

 

[jrumann59]

With forged you can also mix and match uppers and lowers and you won't really notice a difference except may play between the 2. Sometimes mix and matching billets can give you wierd over hangs and cosmetic features that make no sense since it the pieces are different manufacturers. Forged sets from one manufacturer to another are identical except for the roll mark, billets most manufacturers build in let unique things that identifies their sets from others.

 

[armed ferret]

Grammar nazi.

It's actually spelled "s-p-e-l-l-i-n-g", not "g-r-a-m-m-a-r".



couldn't resist. off to polish my verb conjugation swastika...

 

[Traveler]

It's actually spelled "s-p-e-l-l-i-n-g", not "g-r-a-m-m-a-r".



couldn't resist. off to polish my verb conjugation swastika...

Okay, ya got me

.... or did you. Hmmmm

http://www.bowlesonline.com/common-grammar-mistakes-using-the-wrong-word/

I see lose and loose mangled all the time on forums.

 

[armed ferret]

no he just spelled spelling incorrectly and inadvertently formed the word grammar.

 

[E.Shell]

More attention to detail can be made with Billet lowers. More often then not, you will see designs in Billet lowers that you won't see and are impossible to do with a forging. If it is done right, a machined lower can be more precise then a forging. The Billet is being cut from a block of aluminum while the forging is being pored and then pressed into its shape.

Forgings are not cast ("poured"), they are forged from a block of heated alloy.

BOTH billet and forged lowers are machined anywhere they interface with standard parts. Any deviations otherwise, such as outer surfaces, are just styling options unless they interfere with operation.

Forgings are stronger around contoured stress points, because the grain of the metal follows these contours as it is formed.

Forgings are mass produced to approximate the original design and thus should accept anything designed for the basic AR-15.

Billet lowers afford the maker some room to be creative...whether that's good or bad, who knows?

 

[ObsceneJesster]

Either way, I think it's hit or miss when it comes to uppers fitting good with lowers whether they are forged or Billet. My BCM upper fits a lot better (perfect for that matter) when matched on my custom Billet than it does with my Spikes Zombie Lower. There is a little bit of play on the Spikes lower.

In the end, it all depends who is doing the forging or machining. If you want some different designs and unconventional looks, then go with Billet, if you don't care about different looks then go with forged. Get it from a reputable company or manufacturer and you have nothing to worry about.

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