Bet on Holsters for 1911 Carry

[CharlieFoxtrot]

All right gents help me settle a bet here at work. Is it unsafe to carry a 1911 type pistol in condition one (ie round is in the chamber, the hammer is cocked, and the manual thumb safety on the side of the frame is applied) in an open topped holster or is it necessary to have a holster with a thumb break when carrying it in that manner?
Which way and why?
Thanks.

 

[shadow116]

My 2 cents. It is perfectly safe to carry a 1911 in condition 1 with a open top holster. A quality 1911 needs a bit of pressure on the thumb safety to disengage and is not going to pop off safe in general wear. Also the grip disconnect is an added layer of safety.

 

[terryhimself]

In order to fire a 1911 while holstered in condition one carry, you would somehow have to disengage the thumb safety, hold in the grip safety,and get your finger in to pull the trigger. If you can explain how this happens "accidentally" I would like to hear.
In point of fact, I carried a 1911 style pistol for over 25 years by sticking it in my waist band with no holster in condition one. As long as the pistol is in proper repair, no problem.....Terry

 

[wilcam47]

+1 its difficult if impossible to do all of these singularly to cause an accidental misfire...thats how the 1911 was designed to be ultra safe IMO. also getting a 1911 to fire is a sequence...hammer has to be back, grip safety has to be in all the way, thumb safety has to be off...slide has to be all the way forward then the trigger can be pulled to fire.

 

[Rattlesnake46319]

When home in Indiana, I carry my 1911 IWB in condition one with zero issues. You have to manage to pop the thumb safety, depress the grip safety, and pull the trigger all while holstered for an AD. If you can manage that, you shouldn't be carrying in the first place, and you can probably do amazing things to sexual partners.

 

[IcedC]

safety is subjective... some people would say that guns are unsafe in general (those people are usually idiots)... But to get to your question I have seen many people with a holstered 1911 style pistol with the hammer back, I have heard that it could be dangerous but I have never actually heard anyone having a misfire....

 

[alucard0822]

perfectly safe, and widely accepted.

The 1911 was originally designed without a thumb safety, the idea being that the grip safety was sufficient as long as the holster covered the trigger, and carried into battle cocked with only the grip safety to prevent an AD. At ease, the pistol was intended to be manually de-cocked, or carried israeli, part of the reason for having a firing pin short enough that it would not protrude when the hammer was rested on it, although the army ended up demanding a thumb safety.

 

[trickg]

My father was career law enforcement in my small hometown in SW Nebraska, and as a result, he carried whatever he wanted to, whenever he wanted. Having said that, when he carried a 45, he always carried it cocked and locked, and once explained to me why it was safe to do so, for the very reasons that have already been listed above.

 

[pauln]

perfectly safe, and widely accepted.

The 1911 was originally designed without a thumb safety, the idea being that the grip safety was sufficient as long as the holster covered the trigger, and carried into battle cocked with only the grip safety to prevent an AD. At ease, the pistol was intended to be manually de-cocked, or carried israeli, part of the reason for having a firing pin short enough that it would not protrude when the hammer was rested on it, although the army ended up demanding a thumb safety.

I'd always heard it was the other way around. It had a thumb safety and the Army wanted a grip safety added.

 

[mikec]

I'd always heard it was the other way around. It had a thumb safety and the Army wanted a grip safety added.

Same here, something about trying to prevent a mounted soldier from firing the gun unless they had a proper grip. Such as if the horse was bucking and the soldier lost partial control of the gun.

Since the BHP doesn't have a grip safety but it does have the thumb safety. Neither Browning or Saive had to worry about the US Infantry, I see it as proof that JMB wanted only the thumb safety.

I do think many are getting away from the original question, do you need a thumb break holster to be safe or is an open top holster safe?

My $0.02 here, if the gun is in good condition, no amateur gunsmithing and the thumb safety works, then I do not see a problem. I would even feel safe carrying a BHP or HK USP, condition one, that way.

 

[alucard0822]

I'd always heard it was the other way around. It had a thumb safety and the Army wanted a grip safety added.

I read about the thumb safety addition after the design in a book about JMB, and could have sworn they wanted a thumb safety because they didn't trust the innovative grip safety. Thing is though it would make more sense that the grip safety was an add on from a design standpoint, if it was eliminated, what would hold the hammer pin in, and the slide stop detent plunger from falling out? unless the original design was further away from what became the 1911, I belive either I am mistaken, or the author was(most likely me)

 

[DD214]

I carry my 1911 condition one in an open top holster, and I have yet to get rushed to the emergency room or morgue. That said, I NEVER carried my Glocks condition zero, as that just didn't feel safe. The 1911 causes me no such worries, nor does the Sig DA/SA.

 

[SCARCQB]

1911, cocked and locked is the only way to go. Invest in a nice holster and avoid add ons or modifications that will cause snags while drawing the weapon.

 

[GNLaFrance]

I read about the thumb safety addition after the design in a book about JMB, and could have sworn they wanted a thumb safety because they didn't trust the innovative grip safety.

Smith & Wesson brought out the "lemon squeezer" Third Model revolver with a grip safety in 1888.

 

[joppaj]

That said, I NEVER carried my Glocks condition zero, as that just didn't feel safe.

That shows different strokes for different folks. My Glock is 15+1 and that +1 is always in the pipe. Probably speaks to the fact that I like revolvers and never use the safety on any of my pump shotguns either.

 

[DD214]

That shows different strokes for different folks. My Glock is 15+1 and that +1 is always in the pipe. Probably speaks to the fact that I like revolvers and never use the safety on any of my pump shotguns either.

Revolvers I could deal with - same as my Sig DA/SA. A Glock is really no different than carrying a 1911 cocked with a piece of tape holding the grip safety down and the safety off (condition zero). Just 5lbs of pressure on the trigger and OUCH! I guess if you get used to it and don't blow a hole in your leg, more power to ya. I just couldn't get used to it.

 

[Topher]

+1 to being safe.
I believe one key component that has been only slightly mentioned is a good holster. Make sure it covers the trigger.
I am certified to the the NRA Personal Protection Inside the Home and in the process of being certified to teach the NRA Personal Protection Outside the Home class and they say nothing of 1911 issues and I believe they use them as demo's in some of the manual pics.

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

Thanks to all who replied (and vindicated me BTW!). Its funny how it's just a matter of what you are used to. I carried a G30 everyday for 4 years with one in the chamber and never felt it was the least bit unsafe. The person I was having this discussion with always carries his 1911 in a thumb break holster and was appalled at my open topped blade-tech.

 

[Rattlesnake46319]

I carry my 1911 condition one in an open top holster, and I have yet to get rushed to the emergency room or morgue. That said, I NEVER carried my Glocks condition zero, as that just didn't feel safe. The 1911 causes me no such worries, nor does the Sig DA/SA.

Can't imagine why you would feel that a Glock at condition zero isn't safe. Maybe I should ask Plaxico Burress about that.

 

[Bill]

Can't imagine why you would feel that a Glock at condition zero isn't safe. Maybe I should ask Plaxico Burress about that.

Plaxico Burress's Glock slid down his leg. He wasn't wearing a holster, and grabbed at it to catch it.

My Glock has +1 in the pipe all the time. I wear a CompTac MTAC holster and I've never had issues.