BCM 's new ultra light rifles

[Nemesis]

The only sad thing is the allegedly grown adult who insists on arguing with people in every thread started regarding lighter guns, that heavier guns are the only way to go, and lightening a firearm is ridiculous and stupid.

As for your statement about the weight of "all your other gear", the rifle IS part of your gear. If you have the choice between a 40 pound pack and a 9 pound rifle for an elk hunt, or a 40 pound pack and a 6 pound rifle, that you insist on using the 9 pound rifle only goes to show how little experience you have on multi-day hunts in mountainous terrain.

And since I'm sure you'd assume I'm talking about hunting elk with an AR15, I'm not. Just using it as an example.

Some folks enjoy camping and hiking, and prefer to take something along for protection on the trail.

Other people just have a hobby of building various AR15s, and may want to build a lightweight. If that fact gets sand up in your ****, you may want to either switch hobbies, or, since you don't live in MD anymore, head over to ar-15.co and take your leave. *shrug*

Either way, your continued trolling and arguing every single ****ing time someone brings this up is getting tiresome and annoying. Job well done, I suppose.

im not really sure why where i live now really matters...but if you really want to bring it up, at least i could actually buy this 'new' ar if i wanted to...for those stuck in MD still this is pretty much just a hypothetical day dreaming thread...sorry.

when the topic was made about the rail system my dislike of it was for the keymod stuff, which i still dont like...i wont get on that again...but in that topic i also said that making it lighter is cool in my book, it wasnt the weight i had an issue with.

in this topic, my point is that keeps getting missed is that i just think its silly to sell or have a rifle which is lighter only for the sake of being lighter...it brings nothing else to the table other than its slimfast crash diet.

sorry if my opinion bothers you...

as far as the elk hunting goes, i would agree with you that the lighter rifle would be better so long as no other capabilities are lost...which for a boltie pretty much just means a varmint profile barrel and a lighter stock. this ar though does sacrifice on the fly adaptability vs a standard rail system though...in just a matter of seconds i could add or remove a bipod, flashlight, laser, ect with a standard rail system...the keymod needs tools, or you need to add a rail section where these things would go and if you start doing that then whats the point of the keymod?

so this new bcm rifle is lighter (not by much), with less on the fly adaptability (nearly none actually, unless you want to toss your light weight bragging rights out the window by adding rail sections) for a higher price tag (assumption, have yet to see a price tag so i could be wrong)...just doesnt seem worth it.

maybe youre right though...for the past year or so around here its either you drink the koolaid or GTFO...main reason i still came around here is because i like many of you guys, even those who tend to not have the same point of views as me...but i kinda thought that was what a forum was for, discussion...maybe im wrong though, oh well...

That's just the thing. This rifle wouldn't benefit you since you aren't worried about those things.

I'm assuming you've never attended a carbine class. If you had, you would understand that a light weight rifle can be very beneficial.

Starting out with a lighter platform allows you to attach the accessories you want without making the rifle to heavy.

Everything you listed (in order to be funny) that can make the rifle lighter such as no chrome lining and using a lighter buffer hurts the overall function of the rifle. That's just the thing. BCM achieved this weight without hurting the function or durability of their already great rifle. They didn't go and remove a crap ton of material from the rail to make it lighter like that company who's name starts with an "F". They didn't skimp out and use Polymer receivers.

Lastly, did you really just compare the above rifle from BCM to a Carbon-15? Now I think I've heard it all.

yea i thought it was rather funny myself lol...

 

[ObsceneJesster]

i swear you crack me up man...

you keep mentioning hikes and stuff...unless this is SHTF, im not taking my AR hiking, it will be a boltie .308 which will be considerably heavier than even my AR let alone this 'revolutionary' ultralight...secondly, if you are going on a 20 mile hike, the weight of all your other gear matters far more than the shaving 15% of the weight off your rifle...

furthermore, the carbon 15 rifles have been out for a long time, and they have yet to get anywhere in terms of popularity...you would think if their light weight would really help with faster target acquisition and stuff that competition shooters would be using them all the time...

but hell, lets just go for ultra mega lightweight...lets skeletonize the fcg and bolt, then use a lighter buffer and stiffer spring, and forget chrome lining it adds weight...you could just make dovetails on the top of the handguard and rear of the receiver and some pistol sights because flip ups are heavy...while you are at it you can make sure the barrel is 1:12 twist like it was and just run 45 GR rounds to save weight there. hell, before you know it you might be down to 4 pounds! how awesome is that!

That's just the thing. This rifle wouldn't benefit you since you aren't worried about those things.

I'm assuming you've never attended a carbine class. If you had, you would understand that a light weight rifle can be very beneficial.

Starting out with a lighter platform allows you to attach the accessories you want without making the rifle to heavy.

Everything you listed (in order to be funny) that can make the rifle lighter such as no chrome lining and using a lighter buffer hurts the overall function of the rifle. That's just the thing. BCM achieved this weight without hurting the function or durability of their already great rifle. They didn't go and remove a crap ton of material from the rail to make it lighter like that company who's name starts with an "F". They didn't skimp out and use Polymer receivers.

Lastly, did you really just compare the above rifle from BCM to a Carbon-15? Now I think I've heard it all.

 

[ObsceneJesster]

im not really sure why where i live now really matters...but if you really want to bring it up, at least i could actually buy this 'new' ar if i wanted to...for those stuck in MD still this is pretty much just a hypothetical day dreaming thread...sorry.

when the topic was made about the rail system my dislike of it was for the keymod stuff, which i still dont like...i wont get on that again...but in that topic i also said that making it lighter is cool in my book, it wasnt the weight i had an issue with.

in this topic, my point is that keeps getting missed is that i just think its silly to sell or have a rifle which is lighter only for the sake of being lighter...it brings nothing else to the table other than its slimfast crash diet.

sorry if my opinion bothers you...

as far as the elk hunting goes, i would agree with you that the lighter rifle would be better so long as no other capabilities are lost...which for a boltie pretty much just means a varmint profile barrel and a lighter stock. this ar though does sacrifice on the fly adaptability vs a standard rail system though...in just a matter of seconds i could add or remove a bipod, flashlight, laser, ect with a standard rail system...the keymod needs tools, or you need to add a rail section where these things would go and if you start doing that then whats the point of the keymod?

so this new bcm rifle is lighter (not by much), with less on the fly adaptability (nearly none actually, unless you want to toss your light weight bragging rights out the window by adding rail sections) for a higher price tag (assumption, have yet to see a price tag so i could be wrong)...just doesnt seem worth it.

What did BCM sacrifice by building a lighter rifle or a lighter rail? Put a rail section where you would want your Bi-Pod and keep it there. What else besides a Bi-Pod would you want to add on the fly? Everything I have attached to my current rails (besides a Bi-Pod) required a tool to tighten it down.

By the way, BCM has already stated they are in the process with Hailey Strategic on designing quick detach Keymod accessories that don't require a tool.

 

[BradMacc82]

I can see the advantages to a light-weight carbine.

I'd have to see the out-the-door price and see how it holds up over hard usage before I make any further comments though.

If nothing else, it's nice to see advancements and innovation for a platform that's been around for more than half a decade.

 

[Numidian]

I can see the advantages to a light-weight carbine.

I'd have to see the out-the-door price and see how it holds up over hard usage before I make any further comments though.

If nothing else, it's nice to see advancements and innovation for a platform that's been around for more than half a decade.

Ummmm more like half a century

 

[BradMacc82]

Ummmm more like half a century

SHYT...

That's embarrassing.


Now I have to figure out how in the hell I did that.

(ETA: Normally I'd try to correct my F-up, but that one's funny, embarrassing, but funny.)

 

[armed ferret]

im not really sure why where i live now really matters...but if you really want to bring it up, at least i could actually buy this 'new' ar if i wanted to...for those stuck in MD still this is pretty much just a hypothetical day dreaming thread...sorry.

Yes, because the only way to change an ar-15 is by purchasing a completely new rifle.....


You still don't get the point of keymod....you probably won't buy a new video game system either because you can't play old games on it, will you?

A keymod handguard, especially the BCM one, even with picatinny sections where an accessory is to be mounted, will still be lighter, EVEN WITH those accessories mounted, than a comparable full-rail handguard. And far more comfortable to hold/shoot.

Maybe you should handle one before making up your mind, but hey....what do I know.

 

[ObsceneJesster]

Did I miss something that said we aren't allowed to buy uppers?

 

[sailskidrive]

A buddy of mine bent the crap out of a Fortis key mod by accidentally dropping it on the door jam of his Jeep. A freak accident he wasn't real pleased about.

Key mod rails seem to be the en vogue item this year...

Two years ago it was the 300AAC...

Two years before that the 6.8SPC...

Two years before that piston mania...

Two years before that the XCR and whatever that POS Bushmaster is called...

Two years before that the quad rails...

I'm sure I'll have a keymod rail by the end of the year... as I've bought most of the other crap.

 

[marko12]

Gotta get me one.

 

[erwos]

A buddy of mine bent the crap out of a Fortis key mod by accidentally dropping it on the door jam of his Jeep. A freak accident he wasn't real pleased about.

Key mod rails seem to be the en vogue item this year...

Two years ago it was the 300AAC...

Two years before that the 6.8SPC...

Two years before that piston mania...

Two years before that the XCR and whatever that POS Bushmaster is called...

Two years before that the quad rails...

I love a guy with a good sense of history. (Also, it was the Bushmaster ACR - not a bad gun per se, but they under-delivered on it compared to the Magpul Masada vision.) Until native keymod accessories actually start getting prevalent on the market, it's just promises and slapped-on picatinny rails.

 

[Trumpet]

A buddy of mine bent the crap out of a Fortis key mod by accidentally dropping it on the door jam of his Jeep. A freak accident he wasn't real pleased about.

Key mod rails seem to be the en vogue item this year...

Two years ago it was the 300AAC...

Two years before that the 6.8SPC...

Two years before that piston mania...

Two years before that the XCR and whatever that POS Bushmaster is called...

Two years before that the quad rails...

I'm sure I'll have a keymod rail by the end of the year... as I've bought most of the other crap.

Yep....memories. Don't forget to sneak 6.5 Grendel in there someplace between "piston mania" and "6.8SPC"

 

[Nemesis]

BCM will be releasing a new barrel profile along with their new rail. The picture below is their new 13" rail with their new 14.5" fluted barrel and the entire rifle weight comes in at just under 6 pounds. If you used their 10" rail, it would come in at just under 5 pounds.

They will also be releasing this barrel in 16". The barrel is what they call mid weight. It's thicker under the handguard where it matters most and thinner in front of the gas port.





Sent with a Gen 2 Nexus 7

As pictured, this rifle with a 13" rail is 6 pounds 5 ounces. That's with optics and a 30 round mag.

this will be my last post on this topic...while we have been talking about a pound saved and blah blah blah...lets really examine this, and try to get the info straight here...

jester, since you seem to be the one posting all the info regarding this...can you explain how a 13" rail is just under 6 pounds, and a 10" rail is just under 5 pounds? how does 3 inches of this handguard add a whole pound of weight?

then you posted this rifle with the 13" rail, a aimpoint t1 on a ADM mount and a "30 round magazine"...im assuming this magazine must be empty, which seems rather pointless to mention it as a result. the aimpoint and mount together add around 6 oz and, as we all know, 30 rounds of 556 is a bare minimum of a pound give or take depending on the type of mag used...

so given your info, shouldnt this rifle be around oh, 7 1/2 to 7 3/4 pounds?

so really, this just does not seem to add up, and the information seems very sketchy at best...

furthermore the quote from the BCM guy, who says that their new barrel, by computer calculations and admittedly not real world testing, shows that their new barrel will be about 2oz lighter than a normal lightweight barrel.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?135121-New-BCM-rail/page9
post #165

the new handguards come in at 7.7oz for the 13" and 6.5 oz for the 10", complete with mounting hardware and barrel nut...

a 12" midwest SS gen 2, complete, comes in at 9.3 oz...

so if you really want to get down and dirty about it...this 'revolutionary' new barrel and handguard save you 1.6 oz on the handguard and MAYBE 2oz from the barrel (again, real world testing is needed here)...so all this hype is really over 3.5oz?

hey, if you really want to be excited over the weight of a few grapes, be my guest...but im happy with my AR, seeing as its only around 6oz heavier...

 

[Ovid]

I really, really wish I had a pre281 lower now =/

 

[Dave11]

Looks very interesting.
Has anyone heard any rumors on price?

 

[Luigi]

I really, really wish I had a pre281 lower now =/

Buy HBAR, change rail? Not a big deal.....

 

[ObsceneJesster]

this will be my last post on this topic...while we have been talking about a pound saved and blah blah blah...lets really examine this, and try to get the info straight here...

jester, since you seem to be the one posting all the info regarding this...can you explain how a 13" rail is just under 6 pounds, and a 10" rail is just under 5 pounds? how does 3 inches of this handguard add a whole pound of weight?

then you posted this rifle with the 13" rail, a aimpoint t1 on a ADM mount and a "30 round magazine"...im assuming this magazine must be empty, which seems rather pointless to mention it as a result. the aimpoint and mount together add around 6 oz and, as we all know, 30 rounds of 556 is a bare minimum of a pound give or take depending on the type of mag used...

so given your info, shouldnt this rifle be around oh, 7 1/2 to 7 3/4 pounds?

so really, this just does not seem to add up, and the information seems very sketchy at best...

furthermore the quote from the BCM guy, who says that their new barrel, by computer calculations and admittedly not real world testing, shows that their new barrel will be about 2oz lighter than a normal lightweight barrel.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?135121-New-BCM-rail/page9
post #165

the new handguards come in at 7.7oz for the 13" and 6.5 oz for the 10", complete with mounting hardware and barrel nut...

a 12" midwest SS gen 2, complete, comes in at 9.3 oz...

so if you really want to get down and dirty about it...this 'revolutionary' new barrel and handguard save you 1.6 oz on the handguard and MAYBE 2oz from the barrel (again, real world testing is needed here)...so all this hype is really over 3.5oz?

hey, if you really want to be excited over the weight of a few grapes, be my guest...but im happy with my AR, seeing as its only around 6oz heavier...

The weight of the rifle along with that picture came directly from BCM ' s Facebook page.

In regards to comparing the weight of the MI rail you dismissed the fact that the BCM rail is 13" and the MI you're comparing it to is 12". The two rails also lock up differently and from what the "people in the know" over on M4carbine have been saying is the lock up/anti rotation method is possibly the best design yet. The BCM rail has much more going for it than just weight such as the option to mount at 45 degrees, it's coated with a ceramic aerospace coating that is virtually scratch resistant and like I said before, the lock up and anti rotation system is supposed to be top notch.

This post wasn't just about saving weight on the rail. It was also about the new light weight fluted barrels their bringing to the market along with the rail. If you don't care about the benefit of losing weight off of the front of the rifle then why are you muddying up this thread to begin with? This thread was created to inform those who would be interested in a lighter rifle because A. They shoot off hand for the most part. B. They attend carbine classes. C. They want a lighter rifle for close quarter combat and rapid target acquisition. D. They want to build a SHTF rifle as light as possible with the accessories they need or want mounted to the rifle. E. Want a light weight rifle for their wife or child. F. They just want a light weight build.

Honestly, if you don't care about shaving weight then why try to tell others they shouldn't care either? People much more experienced than yourself have already deemed it useful.

Sent with a Gen 2 Nexus 7

 

[ObsceneJesster]

Looks very interesting.
Has anyone heard any rumors on price?

The non fluted non hammer forged barrel is $239.

Not sure of the price on the fluted version or the hammer forged version.

The 13" rail I believe is $280 and the 10" is $255. These prices aren't exact but I remember seeing a post with numbers right around these prices.

Sent with a Gen 2 Nexus 7

 

[armed ferret]

this will be my last post on this topic...

Praise Allah...

 

[LineofSight]

Hopefully we get more info at Shit Show...I would like to acquire another BCM upper.