Basement bunkers - for fallout protection

[NebTim]

Watching the news about a couple enemy countries on the verge or have recently become nuclear capable. If nukes get dropped anywhere in the world fallout could become a serious threat to anyone anywhere in the world. Also the possibility of NATO and Russia (or worse) going to war is more likely now than at any time in most of our lives. Not long ago I stumbled upon this video;

I'll try to make a poll.

 

[Tungsten]

My understanding is that you need to have the capability to ride out the first 10-12 hours of fallout. So it doesn't make sense to have a permanent structure. You can effectively avoid the worst radiation by setting up a temporary air purification area using plastic tarps and some air filtering device as far from walls and windows as you can.

Trying to bugout to a bunker would probably only result in you getting more exposed to rad.

 

[budman93]

I want a bunker regardless of possibilities of actually needing one. That would be awesome.

When I was a kid I used to like drawing 2-d, ant farm style underground forts. I've always loved that kind of stuff.

 

[lazarus]

My understanding is that you need to have the capability to ride out the first 10-12 hours of fallout. So it doesn't make sense to have a permanent structure. You can effectively avoid the worst radiation by setting up a temporary air purification area using plastic tarps and some air filtering device as far from walls and windows as you can.

Trying to bugout to a bunker would probably only result in you getting more exposed to rad.

72hrs.

Too many variables past that. If you've got decent winds blowing a lot past, a rainstorm shortly afterward, etc. can all reduce this window and make things safer sooner. But effectively the nastiest radionucleotides will have gone through several half lives by 72hrs significantly reducing their danger.

Unless you can get out of the fallout zone before you start getting fallout, the best thing to do is shelter in place. Even if you are in an above ground structure. Air purification (you need HEPA levels, not regular HVAC filtration) and air sealed is best. But simply in an interior room, with the HVAC turned off is a heck of a lot better than nothing. Sealing the room up with some duct tape over the vents and doors is even better. If you have no interior room, over the windows seams too with any curtains or blinds closed.

As a gross generalization, being idle, a person can survive for around 5.5 minutes per cubic foot of air. CO2 concentrations will exceed lethal levels after that time. So a 10x10x8 foot room will hit lethal CO2 levels for a single person after 73 hours. Now, CO2 levels would be harmful long before that. Figure about 36-48hrs. If you spent as much time trying to sleep as possible, you might extend that 10-20%. That is of course with no air exchange at all.

Fallout, at a distance anyway, is not a gas, but dust. So even being inside of a house that isn't sealed up with help enormously. A lot of that...well, falls out of the air if it is infiltrating your home so long as your windows aren't open. I mean, think about it. Think how absolutely covered in pollen everything tends to get after a couple of days during peak pollen season outside. The inside of your house isn't covered in it. And most houses have between .5 to 2 air changes per hour, depending on how old/well sealed they are.

Anyway, some of it will get in if not sealed up. But you are probably more at risk of gamma radiation that penetrates the outside of your house than you are the radioactive dust getting in and breathing it. So...I don't know. I guess my usual essay is, it matters if you can seal your house up. But it likely matters a LOT less if you can seal things up, then just being inside and as far from exterior walls as possible. If you DO have the ability to ride it out even further than 72hrs, I would wait 72hrs + one decent rain to wash more of it away that is left (I don't suggest fishing, and if possible avoid hunting and eating anything in the fallout zone, for several weeks).

Radiation has a lot less effect on people than you'd think. Even those who survive radiation poisoning are unlikely to die of cancer later in life. Oh sure, they have a greatly increased risk of it. But even Hiroshima, there is only an estimated couple thousand people who likely died of cancers and health problems later in life even casually linked to the prompt radiation and fallout. Now, thousands more DID die within days of prompt radiation and fallout, let alone blast and heat injuries. If it doesn't kill you quickly, it isn't going to make you the Hulk, but you probably are going to live decades longer (if the resulting post-apocalyptic societal unrest doesn't get you first. Or starvation). Kids are at most risk though from long term radiation effects. First, they live longer, second, their cells are dividing a lot more than us old people's cells are. So they are more susceptible to genetic damage, as well as prompt radiation effects. They are the ones that need the potassium iodide* and the best sheltering from the fallout.

*I mean, if you happen to have plenty, take it yourself. But scientific and government recommendations are the people over 40, unless pregnant, really don't need potassium iodide to help with fallout. We aren't going to live long enough to likely develop thyroid cancer as a result of radioactive iodine as it is the sort of thing that generally takes decades to happen. IE you get exposed when you are in your teens, and you develop thyroid cancer in your 40s and 50s. And being young and growing, concentrates more iodine in your thyroid too. I've got plenty, I'd take some personally.

 

[lazarus]

I want a bunker regardless of possibilities of actually needing one. That would be awesome.

When I was a kid I used to like drawing 2-d, ant farm style underground forts. I've always loved that kind of stuff.

If time and money were no object, I would 100% build a sub-basement bunker. I think it would be fun. Sadly, I doubt that is ever going to be true. Maybe as a fun retirement project if I build my next house I'll put in a sub-basement bunker. Because. Also only supposing the water table is high enough I don't need active water management for said sub-basement bunker.

 

[Alea Jacta Est]

Risk is highly unlikely imo

If it should occur and If it’s close enough, you may not be enthusiastic about qualified survival anyhow

I’m not down with a bunker

Location is my friend thus I can afford to skip the bunker conundrum

 

[lazarus]

Risk is highly unlikely imo

If it should occur and If it’s close enough, you may not be enthusiastic about qualified survival anyhow

I’m not down with a bunker

Location is my friend thus I can afford to skip the bunker conundrum

Close enough for fallout being possibly lethal, depending on winds, is between 200-300 miles. Dangerous fallout easily occurs as much as 1000 miles downrange where you'd really be better of staying indoors a few days still.

 

[WatTyler]

I still have what is probably a '60s-era "shelter" in the basement. There was an example in the government-distributed brochure from back then. Just a wall, floor to ceiling of (dry-laid, no mortar) CMU cutting off about a 10' section of the north side (DC is to the south). So you're surrounded by masonry on all sides except the entrance. It serves no other functional purpose, except as a tomb. Civil Defense was much more aspirational than it was realistic back then.

 

[Triggerfinger]

Even a cock roach wants to live..regardless of quality of living.

 

[welder516]

Can’t wait for this thread to meet up with JB for President.

 

[Muleskinner]

This is a very subjective topic. There are tons of variables. Neither North Korea or Iran have the capability of striking the east coast with a weapon on their own. In the case of Iran and potentially North Korea I think it would be more likely that they would attempt to sell one of their devices to a terror organization who would hand carry the device to the intended target. Therefore no one would have any sort of prior notification until detonation.

And although there would be fallout it doesn't go everywhere and not all of us would be dead anyway. It also depends upon how your basement is configured and what it is constructed of. If your basement is fully below ground your chances of significant contamination are drastically reduced.

And then it depends upon how far away you are from the detonation, which way the prevailing winds are blowing and the yield of the detonation itself. Not to mention what type of isotopes are used to create the device.

I do have a fallout plan for us if there were such an attack. As the crow flies we are approximately 8 mi from Aberdeen proving ground but in most cases the prevailing winds would be going in the opposite direction if Aberdeen were to take a hit. Again, depending upon the yield of the device would determine whether we survive the initial burst but then again Aberdeen's probably not going to be the target of a terrorist detonation so more likely than not we would have prior warning of incoming. Or maybe not depending upon who was in control of the government at the time. I thoroughly expect that if there were such an attack and the current federal government was in place we would never know.

 

[Triggerfinger]

Shades of 1950's. Need to buy a school desk.

 

[Blaster229]

If we had 35k a year salary, people say we can survive.

 

[wpage]

Good to plan for problems. With the capability of Russia and Putin being a wild card in terms of behavior. If things go horribly wrong in policy as they have been lately....

God knows what could happen and somone could "push the button". Planning and dreaming for best and worst is always good.

 

[Bountied]

140%? how is the total calculated? I think the poll calculator is malfunctioning.

 

[pbharvey]

I would like to have a potato cellar, seriously I would.

 

[Nobody]

Where we live, assuming most of us are in Maryland, we are toast rather quickly. I am good with my maker and while I want to delay our meeting, I do not want to live in a post nuclear war world. I have even said I wont go to prison for a long time ( 5+ years) I will check out.

NOBODY

 

[MaxVO2]

140%? how is the total calculated? I think the poll calculator is malfunctioning.

****It's the new math. The malfunction is a feature and not a bug. The 140% is just a reflection of how strongly some people feel regarding this subject at hand - they got to vote twice mebbe! Don't worry, just like elections - the people counting the votes are what really matter!

 

[Harrys]

It is all a crap shoot, many survived when we nuked Japan. You can't see it; you cannot smell it but you damn sure will feel it.

 

[Alea Jacta Est]

Close enough for fallout being possibly lethal, depending on winds, is between 200-300 miles. Dangerous fallout easily occurs as much as 1000 miles downrange where you'd really be better of staying indoors a few days still.

Oh, I’ll absolutely shelter in place in the basement and take my iodine tabs

I‘m surly, old and hardheaded but not stupid.

…you’re right. My location and geography/terrain allow some latitude and leeway fortunately. They won’t erase potential for exposure but they will mitigate it substantially

Thank you.