Banks, Credit-Card Companies Explore Ways to Monitor Gun Purchases

[CrazySanMan]

Credit-Card Companies Explore New Ways To Monitor Gun Purchases
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-04-30/credit-card-companies-explore-new-ways-monitor-gun-purchases

However, some banks and credit card companies are now considering a more permanent move that would transform them into foot soldiers in the deep state's push to create a register of all gun owners. The Wall Street Journal reported Monday that some lenders are now discussing ways to identify purchases of guns through their payment systems. This would effectively transform them into tools of the intelligence services by monitoring virtually all gun sales at sporting goods stores and other merchants that aren't transacted in cash.

As WSJ explains, card networks like Visa and Mastercard can request approval for what's called a merchant category code - or MCC - a protocol that's governed by a Switzerland-based nonprofit. The code can be applied to gun merchants so that banks can flag new gun purchases using their credit cards.

One bank has even had conversations with lawmakers about a bill to require merchants to report ALL purchases of certain "gun-related" products.

Currently, card companies, including networks and banks that issue credit cards, have little to no insight into gun purchases. Gun sellers fall into broader categories such as sporting-goods retailers or specialty retail shops. Big-box retailers that also sell guns are often assigned codes that include "variety" or "discount" stores.

An area of discussion, according to the people familiar with the talks: How far reaching a new MCC would be. This code could identify purchases made at gun dealers—but not at merchants that primarily sell other products, such as Walmart Inc.

Some talks have gone further. At least one large U.S. bank has had early conversations with lawmakers about potential legislation to require merchants to share information about specific gun-related products consumers are buying with their cards, according to people familiar with the matter.

As WSJ reminds us, banks have at times blocked purchases of certain items that they believed to be risky, or part of a legal gray area. They also act as the front-line of defense in monitoring payments for suspicious - possibly terrorism-related - activity. And in rare instances, banks have stopped doing business altogether with politically unpalatable groups like the government of South Africa during the apartheid era.

Citigroup has already started restricting purchases of guns using its credit cards to users over the age of 21 (because the last thing these banks want to see is the next mass murderer using a Citigroup-branded credit card to make a fatal purchase).

This would also open up a new can of worms, as banks would encounter similar problems to those facing Facebook, Twitter and other social media companies as they decide how they should handle all the sensitive user data they are collecting.

"A bank could say, 'We’re not going to do business with gun manufacturers,'" said Jeremy Stein, a former member of the Federal Reserve board of governors who currently is an economics professor at Harvard University. "But when it gets into using the information, you’re getting into the same issues Facebook and others had problems with."

A dividing line, he added, would be whether banks are monitoring transactions for criminality. "If it’s just a policy objective, even if I liked the policy objective, I’d think it’s worrisome," Mr. Stein added.

Divisions exist within the financial-services industry, which previously has resisted pressure to restrict purchases of controversial products such as tobacco.

"We don’t think it’s a good idea for banks to decide what products and services Americans can buy," Wells Fargo CEO Timothy Sloan said at the bank’s annual meeting last week. "It should not be up to me, to us, to decide that. It should be up to folks following the laws and folks making decisions."

Banks have experienced some political blowback as a result of their relationships with gun owners. The American Federation of Teachers announced it would cut ties with Wells Fargo & Co. over the bank's relationship with the National Rifle Association, as well as with several gun manufacturers.

 

[TexDefender]

Just how in the hell are suppose to counter this crap!!!! Argh!!!!!

 

[Alea Jacta Est]

They will stop at nothing. Guess both cash sales and road trips are gonna be in my future.

..as if I’m not already on seventy twelve lists already.

Flip phone here I come.

 

[CrazySanMan]

Just how in the hell are suppose to counter this crap!!!! Argh!!!!!

Instead of using your credit card to purchase a gun, use your credit card to take out a cash advance and buy the gun with cash.

 

[Mr H]

And my wife wonders why I use cash so much, when I never did before.

No one needs to know when I buy particular items.

What's next? Being flagged for buying bacon on my Discover card??!!

 

[Inigoes]

Just how in the hell are suppose to counter this crap!!!! Argh!!!!!

Start hoarding cash!

 

[whistlersmother]

Start hoarding cash!

No one needs more than $100 cash at a time.

Limit high capacity money clips!

 

[JaegerJason]

No one needs more than $100 cash at a time.

Limit high capacity money clips!

You think that's funny, but there's a concerted effort to get rid of cash in the EU. It's too hard to control what people do with it. They're beginning by cutting out large bills.

 

[ted76]

You think that's funny, but there's a concerted effort to get rid of cash in the EU. It's too hard to control what people do with it. They're beginning by cutting out large bills.

Governments will start pushing this for tax purposes also, so that they get their cut from all secondary, fea market & road side stand sales. Along with the tracking what you are buying and selling.

 

[Allen65]

Don't underestimate the free market. If the big banks decide they don't want a certain class of transactions, that just opens up a market opportunity for smaller vendors to provide the same service profitably.

As for tracking, well, don't banks and credit card processors already sell their customers' data to marketing firms? Government can buy all the commercially-available data they want without any sort of coercion.

 

[ToolAA]

I don’t think I have ever used a credit or debit card to purchase a single firearm. That’s usually because I’m afraid I won’t have the discipline to resist spending more than I had planned so I leave the house with the cash that I intend to spend. I guess now there is an added benefit.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[danb]

Banks need to be broken up. They became wholly owned subsidiaries because of the bailouts. Dodd-Frank ensures limited competition from small banks because compliance costs are astronomical.

 

[Doctor_M]

I've asked Baltimore's Best if they will start taking chickens and lamp-wicks as acceptable methods of payment.

 

[newmuzzleloader]

No one needs more than $100 cash at a time.

Limit high capacity money clips!

You think that's funny, but there's a concerted effort to get rid of cash in the EU. It's too hard to control what people do with it. They're beginning by cutting out large bills.

That idea has been floated around in the US in the last few yrs also. Did you know there used to be a $500 bill and a $1,000 bill that was circulating currency? Now regulators want to have the $100 bill removed because it's too easy to use it for undocumented uses.

 

[slowpoke]

Don't underestimate the free market. If the big banks decide they don't want a certain class of transactions, that just opens up a market opportunity for smaller vendors to provide the same service profitably.

As for tracking, well, don't banks and credit card processors already sell their customers' data to marketing firms? Government can buy all the commercially-available data they want without any sort of coercion.

There certainly is a great opportunity financial institutions that respect the privacy and rights of its customers.

 

[SigDog]

..as if I’m not already on seventy twelve lists already.

^^^This^^^

 

[Ammo Jon]

They will stop at nothing. Guess both cash sales and road trips are gonna be in my future.

..as if I’m not already on seventy twelve lists already.

Flip phone here I come.

That's why I've never bothered with credit cards, paypal, etc. Cash and a hand shake.

 

[CrazySanMan]

Wait until you get denied health insurance or pay an astronomically high premium because the insurance company is able to look at your purchases and sees that you don't eat as healthy as they require or buy alcohol weekly.

 

[JohnnyE]

One day you'll get a visit from investigators inquiring whether you know the whereabouts of someone you knew in high school who is now a fugitive from justice. You'll wonder why they came to see you. You haven't seen the guy since graduation years ago. You weren't even friends at the time.

What you didn't know is when the guy disappeared, law enforcement began searching databases and looking at data for known acquaintances, colleagues, classmates, friends, etc. It turns out that just after the guy disappeared, your shopping patterns changed. Although you live alone, according to your grocery store bonus card, you started buying twice as much toilet paper as you did before. Add in the fact that WSSC bills show you began using more water every month than in past years, and so on. Pulling these and other scattered data points together, they suspect there are now two people in your household. Maybe you're harboring the fugitive? Perhaps it's worth checking out.

Is this the future?

 

[Alea Jacta Est]

Wait until you get denied health insurance or pay an astronomically high premium because the insurance company is able to look at your purchases and sees that you don't eat as healthy as they require or buy alcohol weekly.

You’re buying your alcohol in the wrong places...

On grid. Off grid.

Life is all about choices and decisions. A personal plan and commitment to reduce breadcrumbs and online footprint is probably a good idea.

Some might say that less visibility is mo better. There’s a thread (or several) about FaceBook. Alexa. Amazon. Cell phones...the smart ones, eh? On line banking. The more easy and accessible things are, the more vulnerable you make yourself. Period.

Cash sales are less traceable.

In person cash sale is a better transaction privacy wise than electronic either online or in the store.

Sh1t, barter is better still.

The less they know, the more you protect your privacy. If you don’t think privacy is important, consider the Constitution. It wasn’t written that way by accident.

Whatever promotes your privacy is good for you and bad for them.

Cash on hand represents freedom and privacy. So too, does silver/gold. How you conduct your transactions is pretty important.