Attorney General Opinion on 7 day Wait?

[gmkoh]

On another thread, muleskinner rpeorted that he made an inquiry about the wait time- he quotes the answer he received from the head of the MSP licensing division. The letter is pretty clear that the MSP considers it legal for the FFL to release the regulated arm after the 7 day wait (which he called a "cooling off period". Also he pretty much undeniably notes that if it takes over 90 days, that will not be a reason for disapproval.

The letter does not address the 30 day wait, but Patrick has explained the well in another thread. to wit- pay for as many as you want/can afford and your FFL will hold and submit the paperwork. But only (Unless a DC) are you allowed to pick up more than one every 30 days (or two at once with a 60 day period before the next pick up under certain circumstances).

I think its post #523
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=117155&page=27

 

[04RWon]

On another thread, muleskinner rpeorted that he made an inquiry about the wait time- he quotes the answer he received from the head of the MSP licensing division. The letter is pretty clear that the MSP considers it legal for the FFL to release the regulated arm after the 7 day wait (which he called a "cooling off period". Also he pretty much undeniably notes that if it takes over 90 days, that will not be a reason for disapproval.

The letter does not address the 30 day wait, but Patrick has explained the well in another thread. to wit- pay for as many as you want/can afford and your FFL will hold and submit the paperwork. But only (Unless a DC) are you allowed to pick up more than one every 30 days (or two at once with a 60 day period before the next pick up under certain circumstances).

I think its post #523
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=117155&page=27

I emailed thomas williams as well and got the same response. 100% legal for ffls to release.

 

[swinokur]

Some FFL's may voice concern over the release of the firearm even though a release is ok if no response from NICS after 3 days. A ruling from a state AG may not assuage some of these dealers' concerns. This is their livelihood, regardless of the law. A court ruling might prove more helpful to them.

 

[AJRB]

I emailed thomas williams as well and got the same response. 100% legal for ffls to release.

So after the 7th day, if msp hasn't responded in the required legal amount of time, the entire approval process would be void? Regardless of results? If someone were dissapproved after receiving firearm on the 8th day, if msp hasn't followed their own law, what could they even do about it?

 

[Independence]

Some FFL's may voice concern over the release of the firearm even though a release is ok if no response from NICS after 3 days. A ruling from a state AG may not assuage some of these dealers' concerns. This is their livelihood, regardless of the law. A court ruling might prove more helpful to them.

Some dealers have received info from their insurance providers not to release until the NICS is done.

Either way, the lawsuit is an affirmation, one way or the other, of what state and federal law says. It has to be done. The state of MD, the ATF, the insurance providers are all telling the FFLs different things and this MUST be clarified in court.

It's taking too damn long at this point to be merely volume to process these forms.

 

[04RWon]

So after the 7th day, if msp hasn't responded in the required legal amount of time, the entire approval process would be void? Regardless of results? If someone were dissapproved after receiving firearm on the 8th day, if msp hasn't followed their own law, what could they even do about it?

Msp is reaponsible for obtaining the firearm. That was confirmed by the atf and msp that i spoke with

 

[swinokur]

So after the 7th day, if msp hasn't responded in the required legal amount of time, the entire approval process would be void? Regardless of results? If someone were dissapproved after receiving firearm on the 8th day, if msp hasn't followed their own law, what could they even do about it?

umm, find you and confiscate the gun and contemplate criminal charges for starters if you broke a law or if your NICS comes back denied.

 

[AJRB]

umm, find you and confiscate the gun and contemplate criminal charges for starters if you broke a law or if your NICS comes back denied.

What law could be broken by obtaining the gun in the legal time frame?

 

[swinokur]

I don't know but it was asked what can MSP do?

answer

come and confiscate the firearm.

asked and answered.

 

[AJRB]

I don't know but it was asked what can MSP do?

answer

come and confiscate the firearm.

asked and answered.

I guess I'm tip toeing around my point. In a hypothetical scenario, lets say we are back in time and the wait times are "normal". If msp doesnt meet the laws requirements of 7 days, then tried to confiscate the firearm, why wouldn't I be able to grab an attorney and sue them silly?

 

[swinokur]

Legally IMO you could get the gun on day 8, but if MSP later gets a denied from NICS, they can legally come and confiscate the firearm. IMO if they get a late response from NICS (more than 3 days) with no later denied status, you're legal.

 

[CrawfishStu]

I would guess it depends on the reason. Let's say you have a restraining order you don't know about or a felony you thought was expunged.....you are not legally able to possess the firearm though you may have filled out the forms to the best of your ability.

I would guess that the instant check would catch things like that, right?

 

[TTMD]

Are any FFL's on board with or have been releasing after the 7th day without an ND/NICS #?

 

[swinokur]

Are any FFL's on board with or have been releasing after the 7th day without an ND/NICS #?

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=117155

 

[erwos]

Are any FFL's on board with or have been releasing after the 7th day without an ND/NICS #?

Yes, but they tend to be choosy about who they release to. This is the time where your good relationship with your FFL may be paying off.

Also, as gprimr noted, there may be extra-legal issues that are preventing release, such as concerns about liability.

 

[AJRB]

I would guess it depends on the reason. Let's say you have a restraining order you don't know about or a felony you thought was expunged.....you are not legally able to possess the firearm though you may have filled out the forms to the best of your ability.

I would guess that the instant check would catch things like that, right?

I just thought it was an interesting scenario, I have already had an instant NICS proceed on recent purchases, so it's not really a concern. I think it's up to us to hold them accountable for following the law, same as we are expected to.

How about the scenario where you have someone an ffl released to after the 7th day, this person drives to the range to break in their new purchase and get pulled over on the way to the range, officer finds a firearm not technically in the system yet.... what would be the outcome there?

 

[fabsroman]

What law could be broken by obtaining the gun in the legal time frame?

You signed the application under oath I believe. So, the first charge would be perjury if you lied about anything on the application. I believe it is also a crime to attempt to purchase a firearm when you are prohibited from owning one. Then there is the crime of possessing a firearm that you are not allowed to possess pursuant to law.

Yeah, I can see a bunch of charges coming from somebody obtaining possession of a firearm they are not supposed to have.

 

[AJRB]

You signed the application under oath I believe. So, the first charge would be perjury if you lied about anything on the application. I believe it is also a crime to attempt to purchase a firearm when you are prohibited from owning one. Then there is the crime of possessing a firearm that you are not allowed to possess pursuant to law.

Yeah, I can see a bunch of charges coming from somebody obtaining possession of a firearm they are not supposed to have.

I seriously doubt anyone would be silly enough to bother purchasing firesrms if they knowingly shouldn't own them, let alone obtain it prior to decision knowing they would be disapproved. I wouldn't be surprised if those folks are out there, I would hope few and far between.
Really comes down to knowing how your ffl opreates and if they follow md law.., and will release after the 7th day. I know some people are salty they purchased from the wrong ffl, moving foward its now clear which ffl will release and which will not.

 

[ianmcall]

We dont need the MSP at this point we need to know the legality of releasing a firearm without NICS#.

The response from my FFL:

Ian,

Thanks for the info. We are aware of the 8 day issue with Maryland law and would like nothing more than to release these firearms and clear up this paperwork nightmare. However, our concern lies with federal laws. We have contacted the ATF for clarification but they have not been able to help us as of yet. It is our position that the dealers that are releasing firearms before obtaining the NICS # from MSP are “testing the waters”. The unfortunate reality for us is that doing so would be putting our livelihood at risk which is something we are not willing to do. If we are able to come up with a solution we are comfortable with we will certainly let you know.

Tim

 

[fabsroman]

I seriously doubt anyone would be silly enough to bother purchasing firesrms if they knowingly shouldn't own them, let alone obtain it prior to decision knowing they would be disapproved. I wouldn't be surprised if those folks are out there, I would hope few and far between.
Really comes down to knowing how your ffl opreates and if they follow md law.., and will release after the 7th day. I know some people are salty they purchased from the wrong ffl, moving foward its now clear which ffl will release and which will not.

Yeah, you would be surprised at how stupid some people are, or just how unknowledgeable they are. Do you think every potential gun owner out there actually understands the myriad of reasons they could be disqualified? Do you think they understand it is NOT how much time they received, but how much time they could have received that matters? Do you think they all understand that if they were just convicted of their 3rd DUI, they cannot possess firearms for a year's time from that 3rd DUI?

Trust me, the law regarding who is disqualified isn't very simple for the layman to understand.

Same goes for the DNR code for hunting and fishing. I am quite convinced that a Natural Resources officer could write citations up for almost every single encounter they have. The natural resources article is twice as thick as the corporations & associations article.

Regulations are just plain INSANE. However, it does keep attorneys employed.