ATF Coming After Firearms with Stabilizing Braces

[JohnnyE]

Seems to me they have no fear of Chevron v EPA either.

The recent SCOTUS activity on this is matter dwarfs so much of their recent holdings. Agencies will no longer get the leeway they they have enjoyed/abused for the last 40 years. If Congress didn't allow it, agencies no longer get to do it. Agencies get to implement the will of Congress, no more.

 

[Mike OTDP]

In one way, ATF has a defensible position - that they erred in approving the arm braces in the first place. However, people have bought and built braced pistols in good faith. A whole lot of people. And I see several potential lawsuits.

First, reclassifying a firearm as NFA reduces its value. The owner cannot cross state lines without prior ATF permission, and is stuck with a $200 transfer tax merely to get the firearm into a dealer's inventory should he wish to sell it. Sounds like a 5th Amendment Takings case to me.

Second, there will be states (such as Maryland) where it is impossible to comply. Take a look at the MP5 SBR thread over on the NFA portion of this site....there really isn't a good way to meet MD's 29-inch requirement. Again, a 5th Amendment Takings case.

All this is quite aside from the whole legislation-through-regulatory fiat business.

Probably the biggest issue will be getting some sort of stay in place while the lawsuits get settled out.

 

[MD Shooter Envy]

I see the ATF eForm website already has a specific link set up to register the braces. How quick they did that even with rule not "official" yet. I was poking around to do a Form 1 for a real SBR (yes it's >29")

 

[FrankAR15]

The bitch of this is the MD 29” rule. As much as it would suck to register something that’s perfectly legal today as an SBR, what happens if it doesn’t meet the 29” rule?

Maybe MD will change their 29” rule since the pistols were purchased legally in MD

 

[IronEye]

It seems to me that if you bought a braced pistol legally in Maryland that it would remain a legal pistol so long as you don't change anything. Nothing in Maryland law changed. Only the Federal definition changed.

Or would a carefully reading of Maryland law show that if the Feds consider it a SBR then it is also becomes a SBR under Maryland law.

Hell of a mess and I sure don't know the answer - IANAL.

 

[ironpony]

So is this as simple as them wanting people who've purchased/built a pistol and gone through those background checks (then attached a legal brace) to re-register so they have to go through more background checks?

I see yearly background checks for any firearm owner coming soon.

 

[Worsley]

Second, there will be states (such as Maryland) where it is impossible to comply. Take a look at the MP5 SBR thread over on the NFA portion of this site....there really isn't a good way to meet MD's 29-inch requirement. Again, a 5th Amendment Takings case.

What is the MD 29” requirement?

 

[Apd09]

No .22 conversions are lame.

If you’re talking about something like the CMMG 22lr conversion I’d respectfully disagree. I use mine all the time and it makes range time more fun being able to shoot a bunch of 22 on my same AR platform and setup I’d shoot bigger calibers.


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[spoon059]

The track that the butt stock slides on. That kit is just a cylindrical tube.
"building intent"

Again, I'm trying to learn, these aren't sarcastic questions...

"Building intent" of what exactly? My arguement would be that I legally acquired the SBA3 pistol brace and installed it legally. The ATF illegally changed the definition, so I simply removed the brace portion. It is my understanding that the brace is the super killy part, not the track that it slides upon.

 

[Merlin593]

I would think that the MD 29" SBR rule could be met by pinning the comp to the barrel. Plus if you have to register it as an SBR, wouldn't it make sense that you could replace the brace with a real stock? The buffer tube alone should add some additional length to the gun and then combine it with an adjustable stock, 29" should be easily met.

 

[Worsley]

Shouldn’t the fact that there are roughly 35 million braced AR pistols in circulation prove that these firearms do not pose a significant crime problem because of their infrequent use in gangland crimes such as the St. Valentine’s Day Massacre that necessitated the SBR rule in the first place?

 

[FrankAR15]

I would think that the MD 29" SBR rule could be met by pinning the comp to the barrel. Plus if you have to register it as an SBR, wouldn't it make sense that you could replace the brace with a real stock? The buffer tube alone should add some additional length to the gun and then combine it with an adjustable stock, 29" should be easily met.

I don’t think so. if someone bought the Springfield PDW or Maxim defense. They have special integrated buffer spring. Length 18.75” - 23.5”

Springfield Armory

With a huge selection of handguns and rifles, Springfield Armory is the premier manufacturer of quality firearms for concealed carry, home defense, hunting and competitive shooting.

www.springfield-armory.com

 

[[Kev308]]

Again, I'm trying to learn, these aren't sarcastic questions...

"Building intent" of what exactly? My arguement would be that I legally acquired the SBA3 pistol brace and installed it legally. The ATF illegally changed the definition, so I simply removed the brace portion. It is my understanding that the brace is the super killy part, not the track that it slides upon.

Good point, but I guess it would be the same spirit of the law that considers an unfinished 80% receiver a firearm.

I was just pointing out the physical difference of the two items. I threw in "building intent" without knowing for sure if that would consider yourself legal, especially if you had extra buttstocks laying around the house.

None of it really makes sense.

 

[tcofer]

My question is what happens to firearms that are allowed here in pistol configuration and not rifle? An AK pistol is legal here but not an AK rifle. If the feds want us to stamp an AK pistol the state will say no.

 

[Inigoes]

My question is what happens to firearms that are allowed here in pistol configuration and not rifle? An AK pistol is legal here but not an AK rifle. If the feds want us to stamp an AK pistol the state will say no.

The state is only going to say no when the SBR is under 29 inches.

Otherwise, an AK SBR is completely legal in Maryland.

 

[tcofer]

The state is only going to say no when the SBR is under 29 inches.

Otherwise, an AK SBR is completely legal in Maryland.

Gotcha thanks!

 

[Trumpet]

You can think how sweet it is when you are asking the ATF permission to take your free SBR across state lines.

I'm new to SBRs but wouldn't you just fill out a 5320.2, like has been the case prior to this brace mess? Seems to be a PITA, but peole do it. Anyway, I don't really take my stuff out of state anyway. Anyway, for those of us that were planning on Form 1ing a few more SBRs anyway, is there anything preventing just registering 2 or 3 and avoiding the tax? I mean, I was going to do it anyway so why not use this opportunity to at least not give .gov more of my money...

 

[MD Shooter Envy]

To add a little more confusion. the eForm site unique link for Form 1 for braces has the tax exempt checked off with this disclaimer:

"Pursuant to ATF Final Rule 2021R-08F, the Attorney General has authorized certain persons tax-exempt registration of firearms they own or possess at the publication of the rule that are: 1) equipped with a stabilizing brace; 2) meet the definition of "rifle" under federal law; and 3) have a barrel or barrels less than sixteen (16) inches in length.

By proceeding with this application, you are certifying that you and the firearm you intend to register meet the tax-exempt parameters set forth in ATF Final Rule 2021R-08F. Please click here if you have any questions whether you and the firearm you intend to register qualify for tax-exempt registration."

Well per....

Gun Control Act Definitions​

Rifle​

18 U.S.C., § 921(A)(7) and 27 CFR § 478.11

The term “Rifle” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.

"Intended to be fired from the shoulder". My AR pistol was not "intended to be fired from the shoulder" so who in the heck can say it was if it started as a pistol.

 

[Inigoes]

I'm new to SBRs but wouldn't you just fill out a 5320.2, like has been the case prior to this brace mess? Seems to be a PITA, but peole do it. Anyway, I don't really take my stuff out of state anyway. Anyway, for those of us that were planning on Form 1ing a few more SBRs anyway, is there anything preventing just registering 2 or 3 and avoiding the tax? I mean, I was going to do it anyway so why not use this opportunity to at least not give .gov more of my money...

Yes on filling out the 5320.2. remember, the BATFE can disapprove the request. If you have another home in another state. That will get approved for a year at a time.

The PITA: you have to fill out a 5320.2 for each NFA item, if you have more than one..

 

[Doctor_M]

Yes on filling out the 5320.2. remember, the BATFE can disapprove the request. If you have another home in another state. That will get approved for a year at a time.

The PITA: you have to fill out a 5320.2 for each NFA item, if you have more than one..

I believe you can list 3 on a single form.