As we creep closer to restoring our rights...

[Mr H]

Been some convo about some things these links can help with.

 

[Muleskinner]

"As we creep closer to restoring our gun rights"

What state do you live in? Because it's certainly not Maryland...What progress has been made? Several bills were introduced...I haven't seen one of them pass...most didn't even get out of committee...

We are at a legislative stale mate and ONLY because we have a Republican governor. IN 4 (hopefully 8 but history suggests 4) years we will more than likely return to the status quo and the liberals will once again flood the governor's office with anti 2A bills.


I love the fact that most of you are so upbeat about changing Maryland's illegal, unconstitutional gun control mentality. Unfortunately I was raised as a realist. History, logic and common sense dictate my every action. History shows that Maryland is the bluest of blue. Liberal rule is here to stay...nothing is going to change this...logic dictates that since liberals are going to rule the state and liberals are anti 2A your pro 2nd amendment desires will never happen and common sense says that all of your actions, regardless of how noble...(and they are...I respect every one of you for your pro 2A stance) will fall on deaf ears and that isn't going to change..

in 4 (or 8) years when little or nothing has changed and we get another liberal Owe Malley clone in the state house you can pat yourselves on the back and say "we tried"...but that's about as far as you are going to get...

 

[Medshot]

"As we creep closer to restoring our gun rights"

What state do you live in? Because it's certainly not Maryland...What progress has been made? Several bills were introduced...I haven't seen one of them pass...most didn't even get out of committee...

We are at a legislative stale mate and ONLY because we have a Republican governor. IN 4 (hopefully 8 but history suggests 4) years we will more than likely return to the status quo and the liberals will once again flood the governor's office with anti 2A bills.


I love the fact that most of you are so upbeat about changing Maryland's illegal, unconstitutional gun control mentality. Unfortunately I was raised as a realist. History, logic and common sense dictate my every action. History shows that Maryland is the bluest of blue. Liberal rule is here to stay...nothing is going to change this...logic dictates that since liberals are going to rule the state and liberals are anti 2A your pro 2nd amendment desires will never happen and common sense says that all of your actions, regardless of how noble...(and they are...I respect every one of you for your pro 2A stance) will fall on deaf ears and that isn't going to change..

in 4 (or 8) years when little or nothing has changed and we get another liberal Owe Malley clone in the state house you can pat yourselves on the back and say "we tried"...but that's about as far as you are going to get...

I'm a realist as well, and if there was nothing to confirm progress, then I'd agree, but to say there has been no evidence of progress is ludicrous. Are we in an ideal situation? No. Are we in better situations than we have been in years. Yes. So far, a number of very important bills have gone unheard...and? What about the RIDICULOUSLY far-reaching effects of Capt. McCauley's testimony alone? I expected it to fall on deaf ears, and it instead was a thunderous wake-up call that has generated nation-wide responses from liberals and conservatives alike. Yes, I suppose that could be viewed as just "making noise." Well, enough noise will generate a response: figure out what is making the noise, and either rationally work towards fixing it, or stupidly kick it until it shuts up...and the latter would work towards our favor in the end as well.

There is a MOVEMENT that concerns people who do not share our views, and it concerns them GREATLY. If there was no progress, zero ducks would be given.

If anything, I'm actually a pessimistic realist, and that's with EVERYTHING, and even I can't deny the progress; we can't just look at this from a 2A point of view, there are a million other factors; Hogan being elected was not a "flub." It's a show of progress for the restoration of MD, in MANY more ways than one.

 

[Muleskinner]

I'm a realist as well, and if there was nothing to confirm progress, then I'd agree, but to say there has been no evidence of progress is ludicrous. Are we in an ideal situation? No. Are we in better situations than we have been in years. Yes. So far, a number of very important bills have gone unheard...and? What about the RIDICULOUSLY far-reaching effects of Capt. McCauley's testimony alone? I expected it to fall on deaf ears, and it instead was a thunderous wake-up call that has generated nation-wide responses from liberals and conservatives alike. Yes, I suppose that could be viewed as just "making noise." Well, enough noise will generate a response: figure out what is making the noise, and either rationally work towards fixing it, or stupidly kick it until it shuts up...and the latter would work towards our favor in the end as well.

There is a MOVEMENT that concerns people who do not share our views, and it concerns them GREATLY. If there was no progress, zero ducks would be given.

Far reaching effects? What effects? name one thing that his testimony has changed. It fell on deaf liberal ears and they run the show...You are fighting against an enemy that will not even acknowledge your presence, let alone consider your side of the argument. You need to educate yourself on the mentality of the liberal enemy before you can try to defeat them...It seems to me you are going into battle without knowing anything about who you are fighting...Everything about this state is stacked against you...not just 2A issues, but every issue that can be places in their faces...

3 counties and Baltimore City run the state...the election districts are gerrymandered to ensure that.

Petitions for or against a bill cannot be used unless a bill has passed both sides of the legislature...

There is no provision for recall

Our law makers in the Senate and House are elected for 4 year terms, so it's a pretty good bet that if a bill doesn't make it out of committee on year one, years 2, 3 and 4 are going to be no different..

the liberals in Maryland have stacked the deck to remain in power forever..Now add to that Democrats outnumber republicans 3 to 1...it's a miracle that Hogan won....but the make up of the legislature isn't going to change any time soon...

You can keep beating your head up against that wall all you like...but realist? you are far from a realist...you've got your head in the clouds if you think by making noise in Annapolis you are going to change any liberal minds...

 

[Medshot]

Far reaching effects? What effects? name one thing that his testimony has changed. It fell on deaf liberal ears and they run the show...You are fighting against an enemy that will not even acknowledge your presence, let alone consider your side of the argument. You need to educate yourself on the mentality of the liberal enemy before you can try to defeat them...It seems to me you are going into battle without knowing anything about who you are fighting...Everything about this state is stacked against you...not just 2A issues, but every issue that can be places in their faces...

3 counties and Baltimore City run the state...the election districts are gerrymandered to ensure that.

Petitions for or against a bill cannot be used unless a bill has passed both sides of the legislature...

There is no provision for recall

Our law makers in the Senate and House are elected for 4 year terms, so it's a pretty good bet that if a bill doesn't make it out of committee on year one, years 2, 3 and 4 are going to be no different..

the liberals in Maryland have stacked the deck to remain in power forever..Now add to that Democrats outnumber republicans 3 to 1...it's a miracle that Hogan won....but the make up of the legislature isn't going to change any time soon...

You can keep beating your head up against that wall all you like...but realist? you are far from a realist...you've got your head in the clouds if you think by making noise in Annapolis you are going to change any liberal minds...

That's not realism, that's straight pessimism. You say it was a miracle that Hogan won? It was the PEOPLE of MD showing they were fed up with being treated a certain way; the planets didn't magically align and pull Hogan's name out of a hat and say, "eh, why not." We, and myself personally, have changed a HUGE amount of "liberal" minds. Besides, I don't view "liberals" as an enemy. Our enemy is an ignorance of fact and an irrational fear based on propaganda from people in power who don't want to LOSE that power. I'm plenty "liberal" myself, and yet here I am, fighting for the same thing everyone (I hope) here fights for.

 

[Muleskinner]

That's not realism, that's straight pessimism. You say it was a miracle that Hogan won? It was the PEOPLE of MD showing they were fed up with being treated a certain way; the planets didn't magically align and pull Hogan's name out of a hat and say, "eh, why not." We, and myself personally, have changed a HUGE amount of "liberal" minds. Besides, I don't view "liberals" as an enemy. Our enemy is an ignorance of fact and an irrational fear based on propaganda from people in power who don't want to LOSE that power. I'm plenty "liberal" myself, and yet here I am, fighting for the same thing everyone (I hope) here fights for.

It's not pessimism if it's the truth. Prove me wrong...show me where any 2A law has gotten better in the last 8 (or more) years? Tell me how you plan to change the mind of the liberals in the legislature...show me a real plan of action that will have ANY chance of working...you can't...because it doesn't exist..I was in the trenches during the gun ban bill of 1988...I walked for miles collecting signatures..I knocked on hundreds of doors...I got many slammed in my face....we had the full financial backing of the NRA, we had La Pierre speaking at rallies, we THOUGHT we had it in the bag...guess what...we lost at the polls....you don't have the funding of the NRA, you don't have big names attending rallies....I am as pro 2A as anyone in the state...but I can see you don't have a snow balls chance in hell. There are way more anti gun liberals in the legislature now that there were 30 years ago..and you cannot convince them to change their minds...and if you think you can you do not understand your at war with them..

 

[85MikeTPI]

I'll disagree to the premise that we're not moving forward. I'm a recent convert to DINO status and I campaigned hard for Hogan and every other 2A supporter this last election. I'm ashamed to admit to volting for owe malley and nobama in the past but converting my entire family and as many other families as I can. I promote 2A endevours now, volunteer and putting my $ where my mouth is in as much as possible. So if I am but a microcosm of the blue state, we are making gains and the democrats better start paying attention or 2016 and 2018 will be an eye opener for them.

(Sadly I was so out of the picture that I didn't even know who Frosh was. I would have definitely paid him more mind in hindsight but was so focused on Hogan...)

 

[Medshot]

I'll disagree to the premise that we're not moving forward. I'm a recent convert to DINO status and I campaigned hard for Hogan and every other 2A supporter this last election. I'm ashamed to admit to volting for owe malley and nobama in the past but converting my entire family and as many other families as I can. I promote 2A endevours now, volunteer and putting my $ where my mouth is in as much as possible. So if I am but a microcosm of the blue state, we are making gains and the democrats better start paying attention or 2016 and 2018 will be an eye opener for them.

(Sadly I was so out of the picture that I didn't even know who Frosh was. I would have definitely paid him more mind in hindsight but was so focused on Hogan...)

One of the best examples of progress, right there.

We are not at "war" with people, and said people have the same capacity to learn and change their minds as we do. Are there ignorant people who refuse to acknowledge reason? Of course, everywhere, and there always will be. But there will ALSO be those who are willing to listen. We are doing them, ourselves, and our entire movement a grave disservice by stating that everyone who disagrees with us will always do so and on top of that is somehow our enemy.

That last part is one of the biggest problems with this country today. I don't care if you agree or disagree with me, I don't care if you like me or if I don't like you. But I'm more than willing to work with you to get a job done, politics and beliefs be damned...too bad that's not how our congresses feel.

 

[Mr H]

This is intended as a resource thread... not a policy debate.

Thanks.

 

[Abacab]

It's not pessimism if it's the truth. Prove me wrong...show me where any 2A law has gotten better in the last 8 (or more) years? Tell me how you plan to change the mind of the liberals in the legislature...show me a real plan of action that will have ANY chance of working...you can't...because it doesn't exist..I was in the trenches during the gun ban bill of 1988...I walked for miles collecting signatures..I knocked on hundreds of doors...I got many slammed in my face....we had the full financial backing of the NRA, we had La Pierre speaking at rallies, we THOUGHT we had it in the bag...guess what...we lost at the polls....you don't have the funding of the NRA, you don't have big names attending rallies....I am as pro 2A as anyone in the state...but I can see you don't have a snow balls chance in hell. There are way more anti gun liberals in the legislature now that there were 30 years ago..and you cannot convince them to change their minds...and if you think you can you do not understand your at war with them..

Edit. I realized you are talking about the 88 referendum on the handgun roster.

Don't forget Schaefer's abuse of MSP power, the illegal raid and bald faced lies told by the fourth branch of the government - the media.

The game was rigged then as it is now.

 

[Mr H]

I'll ask again...

This thread is intended to be a reference tool.

If you want to have a discussion, please relocate the comments to another thread.

 

[DaemonAssassin]

I'll ask again...

This thread is intended to be a reference tool.

If you want to have a discussion, please relocate the comments to another thread.

Sorry buddy, but you are trying to piss up a rope by making that post. One of them will always keep derailing, in an attempt to get responses out of people.

Keep fighting the good fight. Maybe you'll have better luck with your thread, than I did with mine.

 

[Blacksmith101]

Mods how about sweeping out the garbage posts in this thread and making it a sticky? It is a good resource with great links and should be preserved because we will need it again the fight isn't over.

 

[tsmith1499]

So I guess a Liberal senator from Montgomery county being the co sponsor of a bill allowing reciprocity, whether it got out of committee or not isn't progress????? The same one that voted FOR FSA2013. Yes she HAS changed her outlook on things. I for one would say that is progress, no matter how small at this time. You gotta start somewhere.

 

[Mr H]

Dusting it off for the new crew!

Hopefully helpful for those new to the fight...

Have at it.