AR15 build post Oct 1st question...

[TxAggie]

SB281 is full of restrictions on manufacturing that override federal law. You are not going to be able to build a "normal AR-15" or AK from an 80% receiver after October 1 in MD (that is to say, on 10/1, you have the 80% receiver and start the manufacturing process from it), unless you're a dealer or manufacturer. 80% receivers are not some sort of magical loophole to SB281.

I'm not doubting you, I probably just missed it because I'm not a lawyer. Can you tell me where in the bill it's listed?

 

[erwos]

I'm not doubting you, I probably just missed it because I'm not a lawyer. Can you tell me where in the bill it's listed?

Everywhere, but particularly in the sections describing manufacturer exemptions and the actual language prohibiting FFLs from doing certain things.

 

[TheBulge]

I see absolutely no restriction on manufacture of firearms by individuals in SB281. If I am wrong please point it out.

The Nuts and Bolts of the "assault weapons" ban is below

4–303.
(a) Except as provided in subsection (b) of this section, a person may not:
(1) transport an assault [pistol] WEAPON into the State; or
(2) possess, sell, offer to sell, transfer, purchase, or receive an assault [pistol] WEAPON

This is one of the many ambiguous areas of this law. I believe you should be able to finish an 80% lower and build it into an Hbar/Pistol (and possibly a SBR with proper stamp). If you can convince a FFL to transfer a lower you should be able to do the same. However we all know MD FFLs generally take the most restrictive action when faced with ambiguous laws (just look at all the regulated 308AR threads).

This also makes me believe we will be able to assemble a grandfathered lower into any NFA legal configuration.

 

[erwos]

I'm pretty sure possession covers that. How you planning on manufacturing without possessing?

 

[TxAggie]

I'm pretty sure possession covers that. How you planning on manufacturing without possessing?

But we're not banned from possessing. Only the sale or import into the state is banned. And the manufacturing section only pertains to licensed manufacturers IIRC.

The reason I'm bringing this up is that they were considering language that would ban the manufacture of 3D printed lowers. They specifically said they didn't want to broach that subject and left private manufacturing virtually untouched.

 

[TheBulge]

You can manufacture an AR lower because the lower itself is not in a banned configuration.

Complete the lower and configure it as an HBar.

If you are of the believe that SBR's are not restricted under SB281
Obtain Tax stamp, complete lower, and assemble as SBR.

At what point was a banned firearm possessed?

You should be able to complete 80% lowers and assemble them into any non-banned configuration, but they will never be legal in a banned configuration in MD.

This will likely not work with AK types since they are banned in all configurations.

 

[TheBulge]

But we're not banned from possessing.

We are absolutely banned from possessing listed and copycat "assault weapons" unless we meet the criteria in subsection (b) of 4-303.

 

[USAFRavenR6]

We are absolutely banned from possessing listed and copycat "assault weapons" unless we meet the criteria in subsection (b) of 4-303.

they are not. I currently possess a AR, once Oct 1 hits, I do not have to bring said AR to the MSP, hence making it legal for me to possess.

Forgive my ignorance of SB281 but all the way through the law, it clearly states assault long gun and does not deal with stripped lower receivers. While the stripped lower is a regulated firearm, do FFLs not process these differently than fully assembled ARs? I believed stripped lowers were listed as "other" when performing the background checks. So by definition, fully assembled ARs would be banned since they are "assault long guns" however stripped lowers should be allowed through as they are processed differently (I think) and fail to meet the two feature test. Stripped lowers could also be configured as HBARs so how would the state regulate who is making a AR and who is making a HBAR? Also, i understand we can have complete uppers sent directly to our homes so we would then be able to build the ARs as we see fit.

 

[TheBulge]

they are not. I currently possess a AR, once Oct 1 hits, I do not have to bring said AR to the MSP, hence making it legal for me to possess.

Like I said they are prohibited unless you meet the criteria in subsection (b) of 4-303

Grandfathering is one of the provisions in subsection (b) of 4-303

 

[TxAggie]

Like I said they are prohibited unless you meet the criteria in subsection (b) of 4-303

Grandfathering is one of the provisions in subsection (b) of 4-303

For stripped lowers I agree with you. However, 80% lowers have never been regulated and they are not registered with a serial number. The only section I could find regarding a ban on manufacturing is in magazines with a capacity over 10 rounds. Easy enough because they are not illegal to possess.

I agree that standard stripped lowers will be banned (at least the AR15 pattern, AR10 is still up in the air) but the 80% I see no provision prohibiting a person from finishing one. Nor do I see one prohibiting a person from milling a lower from a solid block, provided they meet the federal requirements that you are never allowed to sell or will them to another person.

 

[vgplayer]

I search for receiver in http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2013RS/chapters_noln/Ch_427_sb0281E.pdf and:

(h) (1) “Firearm” means:
(i) a weapon that expels, is designed to expel, or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; or
(ii) the frame or receiver of such a weapon.

Because of this definition, it is my understanding is that a stripped receiver is a "firearm", according to Maryland. The AR-15 is, according to Maryland, an "Assualt Weapon" which is a "Regulated Firearm". Therefore can be assembled after 10/1 if it was already possessed or a purchase order for one prior to 10/1.

If this is incorrect I will delete this post but I would like some clarification.

 

[bilbravo]

After reading this thread I've come to one conclusion: I'm really confused.

If I own a stripped lower prior to 10/1, can I build it into an AR-15 after 10/1? Not an HBAR, not anything else -- an AR-15.

 

[USAFRavenR6]

For stripped lowers I agree with you. However, 80% lowers have never been regulated and they are not registered with a serial number. The only section I could find regarding a ban on manufacturing is in magazines with a capacity over 10 rounds. Easy enough because they are not illegal to possess.

I agree that standard stripped lowers will be banned (at least the AR15 pattern, AR10 is still up in the air) but the 80% I see no provision prohibiting a person from finishing one. Nor do I see one prohibiting a person from milling a lower from a solid block, provided they meet the federal requirements that you are never allowed to sell or will them to another person.

Are we sure stripped lowers are going to be banned? Are they not treated as "other" when filling out the background check paperwork? Per the verbiage in the SB281, they clearly define ARs as "assault long guns" which stripped lowers are not.

Also, unless you have a machining background and equipment, why even bother with a 80%?

 

[TheBulge]

For stripped lowers I agree with you. However, 80% lowers have never been regulated and they are not registered with a serial number. The only section I could find regarding a ban on manufacturing is in magazines with a capacity over 10 rounds. Easy enough because they are not illegal to possess.

I agree that standard stripped lowers will be banned (at least the AR15 pattern, AR10 is still up in the air) but the 80% I see no provision prohibiting a person from finishing one. Nor do I see one prohibiting a person from milling a lower from a solid block, provided they meet the federal requirements that you are never allowed to sell or will them to another person.

That quote was referring to USAFRavenR6 who was talking about a complete AR he currently owns.

If you look above a few more post you will see that you and I agree on the legality of individuals manufacturing and assembling lowers. I actually believe all AR lowers should be legal but the likeliness of finding a MD FFL that agrees might prove impossible.

 

[USAFRavenR6]

That quote was referring to USAFRavenR6 who was talking about a complete AR he currently owns.

If you look above a few more post you will see that you and I agree on the legality of individuals manufacturing and assembling lowers. I actually believe all AR lowers should be legal but the likeliness of finding a MD FFL that agrees might prove impossible.

I agree with this as well. I believe stripped lowers will be "legal" but the main problem is going to be a FFL who will process one, similar to the 7 day wait debacle.

On another loop in this crap law, what about setting up a trust where you have members of the trust living in different states? Since a legal owner is living in another state, that member would be able to alter the trust to include the new AR. Thoughts?

 

[buttersnipes]

Here's a question: if I have a stripped lower that is supposedly registered on the form as "other", and I assemble it into a complete rifle (that would be banned post-oct. 1st), do I need to re-register it as a complete regulated long gun to be grandfathered in?

 

[eruby]

After reading this thread I've come to one conclusion: I'm really confused.

If I own a stripped lower prior to 10/1, can I build it into an AR-15 after 10/1? Not an HBAR, not anything else -- an AR-15.

Definitely maybe.

I'm in Doc teratos' camp and think you certainly can build an AR-15 after 10/1 on a lower you own prior to 10/1.

 

[bilbravo]

Definitely maybe.

I'm in Doc teratos' camp and think you certainly can build an AR-15 after 10/1 on a lower you own prior to 10/1.

This law is so stupid.

 

[swinokur]

That's my plan. Gonna build a complete lower from one of the two I bought from Engage. I can put whatever I want on it IMO. IANAL. Hope I'm not wrong.

The other I'm gonna SBR once all the paperwork comes back.

 

[tapeman1]

So, if you have a complete lower, after Oct 1 you will not be able to buy anything but an HBAR upper online and have shipped to your house?