AR15 Barrel advise

[trickg]

You can shoot either through a .223 Wylde chambered barrel. That it what it was designed for.

For all of the hand-wringing that goes on about how you can't/shouldn't shoot 5.56 from a 223 chamber, I'm not sure there's a single documented case of anyone having a kaboom from doing so. (Kabooms for other reasons, but not for shooting 5.56 from a 223) For the people who have actually tested it, while there are slightly higher pressures from shooting something like M855 from a 223 chamber, the pressure spike was minimal and not in a dangerous range.

5.56 vs .223 - What You Know May Be Wrong - LuckyGunner.com Labs

Andrew of Lucky Gunner Labs explores the differences between .223 Remington and 5.56mm NATO ammunition - and the results may surprise you!

www.luckygunner.com

With that said, I don't own an AR with a 223 chamber - they are either 5.56 or 223 Wylde.

Because I'm a reloader, because the cartridge itself is identical for exterior dimensions, to my knowledge there is no such thing as a set of 5.56 dies - only 223. I also don't load to max pressures, so from a functional standpoint it's immaterial to me - the last time I fired factory 5.56 out of any of my rifles was a couple of years ago when I shot up the rest of the 100 rounds of M855 I purchased in mid Covid lockdowns - that's the only 5.56 ammo I've purchased. Everything else I've fired has been a reload.

Thanks for sharing some details, Trickg.

A few years ago, and was invited to one member's house to watch him do one.
One day when I get the scratch, I would like to try my hand at getting the tools and building one too.

I think you'd enjoy it - although it costs some at the front to buy the tooling necessary to do the work, I like the idea of being able to do my own work on things when I want or need to, and we all have to start somewhere - even Chad, for all the knowledge he has now, at one point in his life had never worked on an AR and didn't know anything about it.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

For all of the hand-wringing that goes on about how you can't/shouldn't shoot 5.56 from a 223 chamber, I'm not sure there's a single documented case of anyone having a kaboom from doing so. (Kabooms for other reasons, but not for shooting 5.56 from a 223) For the people who have actually tested it, while there are slightly higher pressures from shooting something like M855 from a 223 chamber, the pressure spike was minimal and not in a dangerous range.

5.56 vs .223 - What You Know May Be Wrong - LuckyGunner.com Labs

Andrew of Lucky Gunner Labs explores the differences between .223 Remington and 5.56mm NATO ammunition - and the results may surprise you!

www.luckygunner.com

With that said, I don't own an AR with a 223 chamber - they are either 5.56 or 223 Wylde.

Because I'm a reloader, because the cartridge itself is identical for exterior dimensions, to my knowledge there is no such thing as a set of 5.56 dies - only 223. I also don't load to max pressures, so from a functional standpoint it's immaterial to me - the last time I fired factory 5.56 out of any of my rifles was a couple of years ago when I shot up the rest of the 100 rounds of M855 I purchased in mid Covid lockdowns - that's the only 5.56 ammo I've purchased. Everything else I've fired has been a reload.


I think you'd enjoy it - although it costs some at the front to buy the tooling necessary to do the work, I like the idea of being able to do my own work on things when I want or need to, and we all have to start somewhere - even Chad, for all the knowledge he has now, at one point in his life had never worked on an AR and didn't know anything about it.

Yes x10, Trickg.

Just like when I learned to play drums. I was no kid, but 36 years old in 2000 when I sat at my first kit while taking a little break from hanging sheetrock at my old church. It was down front on the stage. When I had so much fun that day, I went straight to Mars Music in Parkville after work. After test driving and seeing prices on the various kits, I decided that a Pearl Export kit would be my first drums.

 

[Jerry M]

For all of the hand-wringing that goes on about how you can't/shouldn't shoot 5.56 from a 223 chamber, I'm not sure there's a single documented case of anyone having a kaboom from doing so. (Kabooms for other reasons, but not for shooting 5.56 from a 223) For the people who have actually tested it, while there are slightly higher pressures from shooting something like M855 from a 223 chamber, the pressure spike was minimal and not in a dangerous range...

I have. Not in a AR, but in a .223 Remington Model 700 shooting a factory 5.56 PMC. Blew the primer with enough force to have pieces enter the firing pin hole and completely the up the bolt.
If you reload all your ammunition to .223 velocities you're not shooting the high pressure loads and are safe.

 

[danimalw]

Another high end barrel maker that I didn't see listed is Lilja. Not cheap, but if looking for extreme accuracy, another option.

 

[Worsley]

Forward controls Design (FCD) makes a precision duty barrel that is top notch. Pretty much everything Roger Wang engineers is with extreme tolerances in mind. His barrels are listed as HBAR on his site, they are Wylde chamber (specifically for 5.56 & 223) and 1/7 twist. Even lists what buffer and spring to use so you don’t have to guess. When you get the barrel it comes with the three casings fired and a detailed QC inspection checklist with measurements and tolerances displayed.

link below.

SOA FCD Precision Barrel-SOA FCD Precision Barrel

 

[sleev-les]

There are definitely a ton of choices

High End

Proof
Kreiger

Middle of the road

Faxon
Criterion
Wilson
Rainier

Budget

Aero
Ballistic Advantage

To name a few

 

[Boats]

Faxon makes excellent barrels in many profiles.

For me Faxon and Ballistic advantage for budget builds.

Ouchie

 

[Bountied]

Thanks! They really aren't anything special other than the fact that they are builds done on stripped uppers and lowers, and I colored them with Brownells Aluma Hyde II.

Initially they were built on 80 lowers until MD passed the law. While it sounds great to say "Will not comply!" the truth is I'd rather comply than run the risk of running afoul of a law (no matter how stupid it is) that could result in me losing every gun I own, some of which are family heirlooms. In any case, I picked up a 3-pack of PSA lowers to be in compliance.

One has a the FDE has a PSA upper, the other an Aero, and they both have:

-- 12" PSA free float handguard
-- A2 birdcage flash suppressor
-- PSA mid rifle length gas tube
-- Yankee Hill low profile non-adjustable gas block
-- PSA upper parts kit
-- PSA lower parts kit with EPT trigger
-- JP Enhanced Reliability Springs (between the PSA EPT trigger and the springs, it's a very smooth trigger that breaks at around 4-4.5 lbs)
-- Magpul stock, grip and trigger guard

I dimpled the barrels with an SLR barrel dimple jig - I know that there are folks who prefer to do alignment with a bore scope or other methods on un-dimpled barrels, but I don't own a bore scope, so this seemed to be the next best thing for a noob like me to insure my gas blocks were properly aligned.

From a price perspective, if a person is trying to save money it's less expensive to find a pre-built upper and build out a lower, but I enjoyed the process of doing my own builds. Fortunately everything went together without issue and functioned correctly. I invested in a set of gauges to check headspace, but everything else was a simple assembly process - there's no real "gunsmithing" going on - just a process of putting the parts together and following "best practices" guidance I'd read in various sources.

I have an 80 lower I got it serialized. Isn't that all we need to be subservient, I mean compliant?

 

[Bountied]

Thanks! They really aren't anything special other than the fact that they are builds done on stripped uppers and lowers, and I colored them with Brownells Aluma Hyde II.

Initially they were built on 80 lowers until MD passed the law. While it sounds great to say "Will not comply!" the truth is I'd rather comply than run the risk of running afoul of a law (no matter how stupid it is) that could result in me losing every gun I own, some of which are family heirlooms. In any case, I picked up a 3-pack of PSA lowers to be in compliance.

One has a the FDE has a PSA upper, the other an Aero, and they both have:

-- 12" PSA free float handguard
-- A2 birdcage flash suppressor
-- PSA mid rifle length gas tube
-- Yankee Hill low profile non-adjustable gas block
-- PSA upper parts kit
-- PSA lower parts kit with EPT trigger
-- JP Enhanced Reliability Springs (between the PSA EPT trigger and the springs, it's a very smooth trigger that breaks at around 4-4.5 lbs)
-- Magpul stock, grip and trigger guard

I dimpled the barrels with an SLR barrel dimple jig - I know that there are folks who prefer to do alignment with a bore scope or other methods on un-dimpled barrels, but I don't own a bore scope, so this seemed to be the next best thing for a noob like me to insure my gas blocks were properly aligned.

From a price perspective, if a person is trying to save money it's less expensive to find a pre-built upper and build out a lower, but I enjoyed the process of doing my own builds. Fortunately everything went together without issue and functioned correctly. I invested in a set of gauges to check headspace, but everything else was a simple assembly process - there's no real "gunsmithing" going on - just a process of putting the parts together and following "best practices" guidance I'd read in various sources.

I always just eyeballed my gas blocks. I'd stick a spent case in the chamber to seal it and blow air down the barrel to see if it comes out the gas tube. With the set screws Loctited and finger tight, test, once alignment is achieved torque them down.

 

[alucard0822]

Ouchie

To clarify, IMO "budget" is the least expensive that has good function, accuracy, finish, and coatings. Faxon's duty series and BA's modern series are excellent budget barrels. Some brands like BCA are not "budget barrels", they are trash. A true match barrel will be more consistent, a true mil-spec barrel with mil-spec coatings will hold up to abuse better. So while something like a Faxon duty series and Bartlein/Craddock are both "excellent" and could be a great choice, they serve different purposes, and need different builds to get the most out of them.

 

[trickg]

I always just eyeballed my gas blocks. I'd stick a spent case in the chamber to seal it and blow air down the barrel to see if it comes out the gas tube. With the set screws Loctited and finger tight, test, once alignment is achieved torque them down.

That's actually pretty genius - I'd have never thought to do it that way.

 

[Bountied]

That's actually pretty genius - I'd have never thought to do it that way.

It works, but it's far from genius, thanks.

 

[alucard0822]

I always just eyeballed my gas blocks. I'd stick a spent case in the chamber to seal it and blow air down the barrel to see if it comes out the gas tube. With the set screws Loctited and finger tight, test, once alignment is achieved torque them down.

Depending on the gas block, there can be a large port that will function when off center, but that can cause accuracy problems when the barrel heats up, or functional problems due to gas tube misalignment with the gas key in the carrier. If the tube is off center it can function, but will wear aggainst the side of the key and leak, causing short stroking after some use, and they can be a PITA to find. Dimpling not only helps secure set screws, but being one of the set screw holes will line up directly opposite from the gas port, they make alignment much easier. I check barrels even if they are dimpled from the factory just to make sure the port or dimple it isn't off center.

A borescope is best, but there is also the "spaghetti trick", basically put a piece of spaghetti in the gas port till it hits the bore, break it flush. put the gas block on, line it up, turn it upside down so the spaghetti drops into the gas block, you can move it around to see how much room you have, space it from the shoulder, center it in the dimple, tighten, set screws, turn it over, the spaghetti should drop into the bore free, break it with a cleaning rod, the peices will fall out. I line up, space and tighten the screws on a gas block,install the gas tube, bed the extension and torque the barrel nut, then check gas tube/carrier key alignment. if all is well, I rock-set and torque the set screws in the block and drill/pin for defensive builds.

 

[Bountied]

Depending on the gas block, there can be a large port that will function when off center, but that can cause accuracy problems when the barrel heats up, or functional problems due to gas tube misalignment with the gas key in the carrier. If the tube is off center it can function, but will wear aggainst the side of the key and leak, causing short stroking after some use, and they can be a PITA to find. Dimpling not only helps secure set screws, but being one of the set screw holes will line up directly opposite from the gas port, they make alignment much easier. I check barrels even if they are dimpled from the factory just to make sure the port or dimple it isn't off center.

A borescope is best, but there is also the "spaghetti trick", basically put a piece of spaghetti in the gas port till it hits the bore, break it flush. put the gas block on, line it up, turn it upside down so the spaghetti drops into the gas block, you can move it around to see how much room you have, space it from the shoulder, center it in the dimple, tighten, set screws, turn it over, the spaghetti should drop into the bore free, break it with a cleaning rod, the peices will fall out. I line up, space and tighten the screws on a gas block,install the gas tube, bed the extension and torque the barrel nut, then check gas tube/carrier key alignment. if all is well, I rock-set and torque the set screws in the block and drill/pin for defensive builds.

Yeah the left and right is the easy part. When you put the gas block on with the tube installed you can see that is is centered fairly easily. It should float freely in the center of the gas tube port in the upper receiver. For the front to back most barrels and gas blocks are designed to have the delta ring in there so you need to account for that space forward if you are doing a free floated handguard. I find a credit card works well when accounting for the missing space. I've never had any issues with my system but I've only built 5 uppers so I have a small sample size of potential issues. So far so good, I need to get a bore snake though, I'd like to see what's going on in there a little better than I can just looking down the barrel.

 

[trickg]

Here's a question - does dimpling the barrel mess with the barrel harmonics and affect accuracy? I've heard/read that clamp-style gas blocks lead to better accuracy because there's no set screw putting pressure on the barrel. If it does affect accuracy, is it even enough to tell in any kind of meaningful way?

 

[alucard0822]

Here's a question - does dimpling the barrel mess with the barrel harmonics and affect accuracy? I've heard/read that clamp-style gas blocks lead to better accuracy because there's no set screw putting pressure on the barrel. If it does affect accuracy, is it even enough to tell in any kind of meaningful way?

If I spend the money for a precision barrel, I use a clamp-on block seated with rosin, on paper at least it allows more consistent movement vs a pinned/set screw block that clamps. Set screw/pinned blocks are more secure, at least on paper. Even so, I have never really noticed a difference in accuracy, and haven't had a clamp-on block move when installed properly, so the difference likely isn't enough to tell outside of a controlled test.

 

[Bountied]

If I spend the money for a precision barrel, I use a clamp-on block seated with rosin, on paper at least it allows more consistent movement vs a pinned/set screw block that clamps. Set screw/pinned blocks are more secure, at least on paper. Even so, I have never really noticed a difference in accuracy, and haven't had a clamp-on block move when installed properly, so the difference likely isn't enough to tell outside of a controlled test.

Sounds like an experiment needs to be conducted. Buy 5 barreled uppers of the same type and use different gas blocks to see if there is a difference. I'd say that the accuracy gain/loss would be very hard to determine and is negligible for the average shooter. I also think that if the gas block is secured properly that is shouldn't affect harmonics.

I was shooting with a group of guys in Ohio and the one guy's AR wouldn't cycle reliably, turns out his gas block was loose and he was getting inconsistent gas to the action. We tightened up the screws and used Loctite and it was good to go. We were only shooting 50yds so accuracy wasn't a thing.

 

[trickg]

Sounds like an experiment needs to be conducted. Buy 5 barreled uppers of the same type and use different gas blocks to see if there is a difference. I'd say that the accuracy gain/loss would be very hard to determine and is negligible for the average shooter. I also think that if the gas block is secured properly that is shouldn't affect harmonics.

I was shooting with a group of guys in Ohio and the one guy's AR wouldn't cycle reliably, turns out his gas block was loose and he was getting inconsistent gas to the action. We tightened up the screws and used Loctite and it was good to go. We were only shooting 50yds so accuracy wasn't a thing.

That seems to be a common theme with guys shooting ARs - some guys shoot longer distances, but typically it's 50-100 yards. If I wanted to be more precise at distance, I wouldn't do it with an AR.

 

[alucard0822]

That seems to be a common theme with guys shooting ARs - some guys shoot longer distances, but typically it's 50-100 yards. If I wanted to be more precise at distance, I wouldn't do it with an AR.

The AR is wonderful at longer ranges, too many people miss out on that. Really takes 400+ yards before heavy 5.56 loads really start working, and past that for alternate 6mm or 6.5 calibers to work their magic.

There have been a couple people that went from one type of gas block to another, while it makes sense that clamp-on is better, I haven't seen it proven one way or the other to make a meaningful difference.

 

[Bountied]

The AR is wonderful at longer ranges, too many people miss out on that. Really takes 400+ yards before heavy 5.56 loads really start working, and past that for alternate 6mm or 6.5 calibers to work their magic.

I have a 20" 556 and had a 1" group at 200yds. It can be done. I was shooting 75gr FGMM with a harmonic tuner I set up for that load. The test target was pretty interesting with the nodes as you dialed the tuner. I chose the setting where I had the 2 shots touching at 100yds and it worked. I think with different temps and things you'd need to re-tune it, but I don't shoot that rifle often. It has a white oak SPR fluted barrel with matching bolt. I need to shoot it more.