AR felt recoil/stock vibration issue

[Scott7891]

I am new to the AR world having lingered in discussions about it for years. I finally decided to step in right before the new law in Maryland took effect forcing my hand. After a few years finally moving down here to Florida I was finally able to finish them and go shooting.

It was one of the worst shooting experiences I ever had.

The issue was not reliability, they all fed and functioned 100%. The issue was the felt recoil and stock vibration. It is something I never experienced before. I have shot numerous other systems (AK's, FAL's, G3's, M14's, Galil, SIG, Tavor, AUG, K98k, Mosin, etc.) and never had the same feeling in any of them especially the pain after each shot and vibration that kept me from making reliable follow up shots. The twang noise is also something I want to eliminate if possible but the vibration/felt recoil issue more than anything is something that keeps me from enjoying this system.

My 16" rig is a BCM Mid-length upper, standard BCM phosphate bolt carrier group, LMT Carbine lower and LMT parts kit, Magpul MOE buttstock, and what looks to be a Carbine-length standard recoil buffer and spring.

My 20" rig is a PSA upper, PSA milspec carrier group, LMT Rifle lower and LMT parts kit, M16 rifle butt-stock, and what looks to be a standard rifle recoil buffer and rifle spring. The rifle sucked shooting less than the carbine but still annoying.

I have only fired Federal XM-193 55gr. ammo out of them.

I have been looking up "fixes" like greasing the recoil spring which does not look to be a long-term viable plan that can lead to more issues. Same with hydraulic buffers that seem to help but are also not very reliable depending on the setup one has. I looked at the Tubb Speedlock Flat Spring System that supposedly helps to reduce if not eliminate the sound of the twang as well as help with recoil issues but again reviews are mixed on its efficiency I guess depending on what you have set up.

Maybe the Magpul MOE stock is too light and not helping needing a heavier stock?

I don't want to sell what I have but with what I have right now I can't shoot them in an enjoyable, less painful manner and if I can't do that then I have no choice but to get rid of them.

Any AR experts with more knowledge than me is this common? Isolated issue? Any insightful solutions that would work with my rigs to make these issues go away?

 

[Fox123]

AR recoil?... 5.56? Don't want to insult, but if it's recoiling so much that it's painful, might be something wrong with either you or the rifle?

As for the twang, it's part of the system, never bothered me.

 

[erwos]

OK, well, twang is easy... the JP captured buffer system will deal with that.

As for the recoil, no idea. I had a similar setup to yours, and never had a problem with the AR's recoil compared to anything else. Maybe adjust your stance to tuck in the stock a bit more?

 

[bkuether]

Paging Dr. Clandestine!

 

[clandestine]

Who never said in the CS flat wire tubb spring isn't worth it is regurgitating second hand heresay. It will reduce the "spong" noise and reduce the recoil impulse because the coils can't go to solid height like a music wire spring. The CS spring has a life cycle of 500k rounds, a standard spring can be toast in 5k rounds.

Yes the hydraulic buffers are junk. Greasing a spring is a bandaid too. The silent JP system is neat but not standard. The good news it is has different springs to tune.

Since the guns are not factory guns its hard to say what's going on with the recoil, they could be over gassed. Its hard to say without having it in my hands. Overgassing is easiest to fix with adjustable gas.

What many people don't realize is many manufacturers intentionally over port barrels so they run on imported and junk ammo like PMC. If they didn't then they would get a bunch of returns from customers who want to feed their AR junk ammo. Over porting will ensure the gun will run no matter what but it all throw gas, recoil hard, break bolt heads sooner, and in some cases induce double feeds or bolt over base malfunctions.

Military M16 are fed a few types of ammo and have a standard for buffers and gas ports based on the limited selection of ammo. In the civilian world you have 4+ gas system lengths, 4+ buffer/action spring lengths and weights, hundreds of loads, different bolt carrier designs, and so on.

You can tailor the gun to that load and it will be more pleasant to shoot but you may need to try a few types of action springs, buffers, and such.

 

[clandestine]

Paging Dr. Clandestine!

Beat me to it.

 

[bkuether]

AR recoil?... 5.56? Don't want to insult, but if it's recoiling so much that it's painful, might be something wrong with either you or the rifle?

As for the twang, it's part of the system, never bothered me.

My Stag Model 8 (piston) slams back a bit. I wouldn't call it painful... More than a DI for sure.

I put that upper on an A2 fixed stock equipped lower, and WOW, what a difference.

 

[Scott7891]

AR recoil?... 5.56? Don't want to insult, but if it's recoiling so much that it's painful, might be something wrong with either you or the rifle?

As for the twang, it's part of the system, never bothered me.

I knew someone would post this......

Again I listed above all the other rifle systems that are and well above 5.56 that I have shot and not had any of the issues I do in my AR's so at this point it is something with these guns.

OK, well, twang is easy... the JP captured buffer system will deal with that.

As for the recoil, no idea. I had a similar setup to yours, and never had a problem with the AR's recoil compared to anything else. Maybe adjust your stance to tuck in the stock a bit more?

That is another possible issue as well. Need more training.

Who never said in the CS flat wire tubb spring isn't worth it is regurgitating second hand heresay. It will reduce the "spong" noise and reduce the recoil impulse because the coils can't go to solid height like a music wire spring. The CS spring has a life cycle of 500k rounds, a standard spring can be toast in 5k rounds.

Yes the hydraulic buffers are junk. Greasing a spring is a bandaid too. The silent JP system is neat but not standard. The good news it is has different springs to tune.

Since the guns are not factory guns its hard to say what's going on with the recoil, they could be over gassed. Its hard to say without having it in my hands. Overgassing is easiest to fix with adjustable gas.

What many people don't realize is many manufacturers intentionally over port barrels so they run on imported and junk ammo like PMC. If they didn't then they would get a bunch of returns from customers who want to feed their AR junk ammo. Over porting will ensure the gun will run no matter what but it all throw gas, recoil hard, break bolt heads sooner, and in some cases induce double feeds or bolt over base malfunctions.

Military M16 are fed a few types of ammo and have a standard for buffers and gas ports based on the limited selection of ammo. In the civilian world you have 4+ gas system lengths, 4+ buffer/action spring lengths and weights, hundreds of loads, different bolt carrier designs, and so on.

You can tailor the gun to that load and it will be more pleasant to shoot but you may need to try a few types of action springs, buffers, and such.

Thank you Chad I was waiting for your insight since you are the AR master. Thank you for your information and will definitely be looking into your proscribed fixes. I was leaning toward the Tubb spring anyway but wanted your knowledge before wasting my money on a gimmick like the hydraulic buffers are.

Also another question would using a heavier recoil buffer help?

 

[ericoak]

I don't like the spring noise either but it's part of the gun.

 

[mopar92]

Can you post a pic of how you are shooting the AR?

 

[Scott7891]

Can you post a pic of how you are shooting the AR?

I don't have a camera or tripod to do so but I can admit on that day when I went shooting I was babysitting a lot of newbie shooters so the constant stress of making sure everyone was shooting safe and other distractions kept me from concentrating on a proper stance.

i will have to go out again when it is just me to have another go but I think Chad's suggestions above will definitely be something I look to for help.

 

[jimbobborg]

Can you post a pic of how you are shooting the AR?

This would really help if you're having problems with recoil. I had a problem with my original wood-stocked Mini-14 slamming into my shoulder but the LOP was too short and the stock plate was sliding all over my shoulder.

 

[mopar92]

This would really help if you're having problems with recoil. I had a problem with my original wood-stocked Mini-14 slamming into my shoulder but the LOP was too short and the stock plate was sliding all over my shoulder.

What a lot of people have issues with on ARs is raising the sight plane to their eyes cause of the high height over bore. This usually causes (in extreme cases) the buttstock to begin walking over your shoulder and resting against your clavicle/collarbone, and anytime a rifle recoils off of bone it sucks What helps is getting an aggressive stance and leaning your head forward and tucking the stock in your pocket.

 

[5.56blaster]

Recoil? With an AR? Somethings not right. My daughter is 5' tall and 100 lbs. And shoots AR's all day. She would complain if it hurt her shoulder. Lots of noise but no recoil should be felt with your AR.

 

[Boom Boom]

As said above, has to be an issue with how your holding the rifles. My AR-15s are all lightweight (6 to 6.5 lbs unloaded) and the recoil to me is nothing with 5.56mm NATO ammo. Now when I shoot 100+ shells in an outing with my 12ga O/U, that is recoil.

 

[outrider58]

Only way to get rid of the ''spoon on a cheese grater'' sound is put a JP Silent Capture Spring in replacement of the standard buffer and spring. It will also tame some of the recoil. One caution though, They don't always get along with suppressors. I use these in several of my guns especially in my rifle length buffers which seem to be the biggest offenders, noise wise. In my suppressed guns, I run the Tubb flat springs.

 

[cobra]

There is a noticable difference in recoil when shooting my AR with the full size fixed A2 stock compared to the one with the collapsible stock. Full size stock has less recoil, but it's also a HBAR so not sure what effect that plays in recoil.

 

[CrawfishStu]

There are a number of things that you can do. Each of them have a slight benefit that adds up.
Things to look at and/or upgrade.
Buttstock and pad.
Handgrip
handguard
buffer
buffer spring
barrel weight
muzzle device
bolt carrier

This is pretty much every major component in an AR.

I kind of did a step by step assembly at the range one day to see what parts made a difference. The answer was that they all made a small difference and each had a cost. Usually in added weight. A heavy barrel profile seemed to be the one item that made the most difference for me. Getting some weight out in front of the magwell seemed to make a big difference. A heavy brake adds weight right where you want it for recoil management with added weight and gas direction. You are probably married to your barrel profile but getting a heavy brake on there would help out.

 

[Erno86]

Google: JP Enterprises Silent Captured Recoil Buffer Spring AR15.
JP also makes one for the AR10
May I suggest having the rifle up against your shoulder to minimize recoil kickback, and maybe having a firm hold for some type's of shots.

For my significant recoil boomers --- while wearing light clothing --- I buy an item at an auto store...called "Bag of Rags," and stuff a few of the rags under my shirt in the shoulder area.

You'll have to realize that the gun is not going to hurt you --- so get into the gun --- so to speak.

There is a significant pain point in the outer shoulder area...so try to set the buttstock deeper in your shoulder pocket.

Shooting light {52?} grain bullets will definitely help in the recoil department.

 

[wilcam47]

I guess I ignore the sound now but maybe try this stock. As for recoil even my ar 10 doesnt bother me..