Here’s my pre-shooting review of the Apex Forward Set Sear and Trigger (and Reset Assist Mechanism). I have been a fan of M&P pistols for some time, and own three of them. My only real gripe with the gun is the ambiguous reset. I’ve heard much about Apex products, and decided that I would give the RAM a try… well, I went overboard and bought the FSS also.
First impressions:
The Kit.
Overall, I’m happy with the quality and precision of the parts included with the kit. Everything did what it was supposed to do and fit where it was supposed to go. That said, the kit suffers from the lack of one part: a standardized trigger bar (of course, I knew that before buying). To me, it seems odd that so much work would be put into precision tolerances and smoothing contact surfaces in front of and behind the trigger bar, but Apex would opt to leave the stock trigger bar in place. With the stock bar, you keep two rough (the edge of stamped steel) contact surfaces with the striker block safety and the sear. The stock trigger bar also leaves Apex at the mercy of S&W’s not-so-awesome factory tolerances… which turned into an issue for me. A trigger bar that has been trued up in a jig, and smoothed over with a couple fine India stone swipes would be a real asset to this kit IMO.
The Install.
First, the product comes with no instructions, just a business card that directs you to YouTube videos. Frankly, the videos are not that great. If I was not as familiar as I am with the M&P workings, I may have had a tough time.
The install took me about an hour (including addressing the trigger bar issue discussed below) and was easy enough for a beginner to do with few problems… but anyone who thinks it will be as easy as the video is in for a shock. For instance, installation of the new striker block requires removal of the rear sight. The video shows Randy loosening the set screw on the rear sight and the sight practically falling off. Well, anyone who knows M&P’s knows that the sight dovetails are TIGHT… so much so that a drift punch may not do the trick. My BJM universal sight tool, however, made light work of this and rendered installation of the striker block very easy. I would consider a sight tool to be required for this install. The kit comes with a tool to hold the striker block spring down while the sight is being re-installed. I did not need to use it (and, frankly, I thought it would get in the way) but can see how some might want it if not using a sight tool move the rear sight.
Frame disassembly is a cinch. Tap out the two roll pins and the trigger pin, then remove the takedown lever. After that, everything should slide out with only minor effort. Side note: the Apex video shows removal of the Sear housing without removal of the trigger and locking block. This was not possible on my gun, but removing both at the same time is easy enough.
The most difficult part of the install (for me) was mating the trigger bar to the trigger. The issue is that it’s not easy to keep everything lined up when hitting the pin. Apex made this job much easier than it was on the original kit by including a pre-lubed pin partially installed in the trigger, so all you need to do is line things up and smack the heck out of it. I should note that driving the trigger bar pin into hard anodized aluminum is not particularly easy, so don’t be afraid to smack it good. I would recommend using a center punch to avoid the punch coming off the pin and marring the trigger finish.
A slave pin is included with the kit to hold the trigger spring in place while the trigger is being installed. It works as advertised.
Once all new parts were in, reassembly was just as easy as disassembly. No problems there at all. I know that some have had issues with installing the trigger pin, but I found it pretty easy using a punch to line up the parts from the right side of the gun while installing the pin from the left.
Problems.
Here is where I ran into issues. Once everything was back together and the safeties were tested, I tried dry firing… nothing… totally dead trigger. So I compared the operation of the action to another one of the my M&P’s and noted that the sear did not move nearly as much. I was expecting that, but it did not even move enough to release the striker. Crap. This is where a trigger bar from Apex aligned on a jig would have made things better. The problem is easy enough to fix if you know what you are doing. Simply disassemble the gun again; bend the loop on the trigger bar that contacts the sear upward ever so slightly; reassemble; test; try again and bend it a little more if it still doesn’t work. I got it on the second time. I should note that I have about 8,000+ rounds through this particular gun, so it is possible that a combination of bad S&W tolerances and ordinary wear to the trigger bar caused the issue… but in my view, it still is inexcusable for part that are supposed to be “drop-in.”
Trigger Feel.
The trigger itself will take some getting used to. When using proper shooting form, it will not present any problems. If, however, you do not shoot with the pad of your finger (i.e., you keep the trigger between the first and second knuckle) you may have some problems with the trigger safety. My wife certainly kept running into trigger safety issues when she tried it out. In sum, it’s not so great for a stressful situation, but perfectly fine for a range gun.
I do not have a pull gauge, but I would estimate trigger pull around 4lbs... maybe a tad less (based on comparisons to some of my other guns with known pull weights). The FSS kit is designed to give you a little more pull weight, but I used the stock trigger and sear springs rather than the ones that came with the FSS, so that lighted it up. Pre-travel is much less (about 1/8 inch). Over travel is non-existent. The reset definitely seems shorter. In sum, a large improvement. All of that said, don’t believe the advertisement that it will “mimic a 1911 trigger.” It will not. It's a totally different "feel" in my opinion. I like my (worked over) 1911's trigger better.
RAM.
The tactile feedback on trigger reset is much improved. It is, however, nowhere near as positive as a Glock. The RAM took the M&P’s reset from ambiguous (i.e., terrible) to acceptable. Don’t expect anything more than this.
Conclusions.
First, the FSS and RAM are a huge improvement over the stock M&P trigger. I’m not sure that they are worth the money (FSS $159, RAM $22), but I don’t regret it… at least not nearly as much as some other purchases.
Second, there is no such thing as a drop-in part. Unless you are comfortable working on guns and making minor modifications to the trigger mechanism, take it to a gunsmith.
I took a some pictures along the way and attached a few of them… if you have a special request for a picture of a particular stage, let me know. I hope this is helpful to some.
I also polished the feed ramp and chamber while I was in the mood.
I’ll post again after taking it to the range tomorrow.
First impressions:
The Kit.
Overall, I’m happy with the quality and precision of the parts included with the kit. Everything did what it was supposed to do and fit where it was supposed to go. That said, the kit suffers from the lack of one part: a standardized trigger bar (of course, I knew that before buying). To me, it seems odd that so much work would be put into precision tolerances and smoothing contact surfaces in front of and behind the trigger bar, but Apex would opt to leave the stock trigger bar in place. With the stock bar, you keep two rough (the edge of stamped steel) contact surfaces with the striker block safety and the sear. The stock trigger bar also leaves Apex at the mercy of S&W’s not-so-awesome factory tolerances… which turned into an issue for me. A trigger bar that has been trued up in a jig, and smoothed over with a couple fine India stone swipes would be a real asset to this kit IMO.
The Install.
First, the product comes with no instructions, just a business card that directs you to YouTube videos. Frankly, the videos are not that great. If I was not as familiar as I am with the M&P workings, I may have had a tough time.
The install took me about an hour (including addressing the trigger bar issue discussed below) and was easy enough for a beginner to do with few problems… but anyone who thinks it will be as easy as the video is in for a shock. For instance, installation of the new striker block requires removal of the rear sight. The video shows Randy loosening the set screw on the rear sight and the sight practically falling off. Well, anyone who knows M&P’s knows that the sight dovetails are TIGHT… so much so that a drift punch may not do the trick. My BJM universal sight tool, however, made light work of this and rendered installation of the striker block very easy. I would consider a sight tool to be required for this install. The kit comes with a tool to hold the striker block spring down while the sight is being re-installed. I did not need to use it (and, frankly, I thought it would get in the way) but can see how some might want it if not using a sight tool move the rear sight.
Frame disassembly is a cinch. Tap out the two roll pins and the trigger pin, then remove the takedown lever. After that, everything should slide out with only minor effort. Side note: the Apex video shows removal of the Sear housing without removal of the trigger and locking block. This was not possible on my gun, but removing both at the same time is easy enough.
The most difficult part of the install (for me) was mating the trigger bar to the trigger. The issue is that it’s not easy to keep everything lined up when hitting the pin. Apex made this job much easier than it was on the original kit by including a pre-lubed pin partially installed in the trigger, so all you need to do is line things up and smack the heck out of it. I should note that driving the trigger bar pin into hard anodized aluminum is not particularly easy, so don’t be afraid to smack it good. I would recommend using a center punch to avoid the punch coming off the pin and marring the trigger finish.
A slave pin is included with the kit to hold the trigger spring in place while the trigger is being installed. It works as advertised.
Once all new parts were in, reassembly was just as easy as disassembly. No problems there at all. I know that some have had issues with installing the trigger pin, but I found it pretty easy using a punch to line up the parts from the right side of the gun while installing the pin from the left.
Problems.
Here is where I ran into issues. Once everything was back together and the safeties were tested, I tried dry firing… nothing… totally dead trigger. So I compared the operation of the action to another one of the my M&P’s and noted that the sear did not move nearly as much. I was expecting that, but it did not even move enough to release the striker. Crap. This is where a trigger bar from Apex aligned on a jig would have made things better. The problem is easy enough to fix if you know what you are doing. Simply disassemble the gun again; bend the loop on the trigger bar that contacts the sear upward ever so slightly; reassemble; test; try again and bend it a little more if it still doesn’t work. I got it on the second time. I should note that I have about 8,000+ rounds through this particular gun, so it is possible that a combination of bad S&W tolerances and ordinary wear to the trigger bar caused the issue… but in my view, it still is inexcusable for part that are supposed to be “drop-in.”
Trigger Feel.
The trigger itself will take some getting used to. When using proper shooting form, it will not present any problems. If, however, you do not shoot with the pad of your finger (i.e., you keep the trigger between the first and second knuckle) you may have some problems with the trigger safety. My wife certainly kept running into trigger safety issues when she tried it out. In sum, it’s not so great for a stressful situation, but perfectly fine for a range gun.
I do not have a pull gauge, but I would estimate trigger pull around 4lbs... maybe a tad less (based on comparisons to some of my other guns with known pull weights). The FSS kit is designed to give you a little more pull weight, but I used the stock trigger and sear springs rather than the ones that came with the FSS, so that lighted it up. Pre-travel is much less (about 1/8 inch). Over travel is non-existent. The reset definitely seems shorter. In sum, a large improvement. All of that said, don’t believe the advertisement that it will “mimic a 1911 trigger.” It will not. It's a totally different "feel" in my opinion. I like my (worked over) 1911's trigger better.
RAM.
The tactile feedback on trigger reset is much improved. It is, however, nowhere near as positive as a Glock. The RAM took the M&P’s reset from ambiguous (i.e., terrible) to acceptable. Don’t expect anything more than this.
Conclusions.
First, the FSS and RAM are a huge improvement over the stock M&P trigger. I’m not sure that they are worth the money (FSS $159, RAM $22), but I don’t regret it… at least not nearly as much as some other purchases.
Second, there is no such thing as a drop-in part. Unless you are comfortable working on guns and making minor modifications to the trigger mechanism, take it to a gunsmith.
I took a some pictures along the way and attached a few of them… if you have a special request for a picture of a particular stage, let me know. I hope this is helpful to some.
I also polished the feed ramp and chamber while I was in the mood.
I’ll post again after taking it to the range tomorrow.
Attachments
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I attribute this to a combination of the quick/light trigger pull and the improved reset. I was pretty happy with the results.
