Anyone else notice that the NY law includes a ban on shotguns?

[erwos]

A friend of mine, a manufacturer, was called by a company called RSR today... and asked to create an AR-15 varient without a pistol grip!!

I think it's doable, truth be told. You'd have to really exploit the rear angle of the receiver to get the grip high enough to get a decent trigger pull, though.

 

[Recoil45]

Our previous AWB covered shotguns as well. Some were banned but not all. I don't think this is meant to be a total ban. A regular semi auto without a pistol grip that holds 5rds should be good to go. The state police have the final say of what makes it onto their list though. They don't like the word tactical.

http://troopers.ny.gov/Firearms/NYS_SAFE_Act/

 

[Eviljagtech]

I sent an email to my parents up there in NY to see how it happened and what i was told was one minute they were talking about it, next its law. Most pro gunners have left the state many moons ago and many more are leaving now. Wonder whats going to happen when they don't have enough people to tax.

 

[Bolts Rock]

If you want a good laugh it came out this morning that as written the 7 round limit applies to on duty police and military in NY.

 

[Boom Boom]

Wonder whats going to happen when they don't have enough people to tax.

Simple. NY State will tax the hell out of whoever is left, especially NYC.

 

[Sev89]

If you want a good laugh it came out this morning that as written the 7 round limit applies to on duty police and military in NY.

I was wondering if that was the case, weren't they also affected by the 10 round limit as well?

 

[pilgrim]

If you want a good laugh it came out this morning that as written the 7 round limit applies to on duty police and military in NY.

Awesome, all citizens and officers treated equally. This is the only silver lining I found.

 

[DoesItGoBang]

My question is on all the "large capacity ammunition feeding devices" - how does this apply to tube fed lever action (think 15 round Winchester 92 cowboy gun) and "feed strips" limited to 7 rounds. (does anyone use 855 on stripper clips!)

As I see this a little more digging needs to be done by the legal eagles to help understand the full impact. It's going to get real messy before it gets better.

 

[Boom Boom]

My understanding is that lever-action rifles with fixed tubes are not affected, regardless of capacity. Doesn't mean NY won't try to ban them next week with another law once they realize they overlooked something. I think "clips" are mentioned in the legislation because the authors were far too ignorant to understand that magazines and stripper clips are completely different things.

 

[Bullfrog]

Well, it's easy to design a rubber buttstock that screws on where the pistol grip would be, leaving the buffer tube floating in space. Would be horrificly ugly.

Yea, that's been done already, to appease the overlords in Kommiefornia.

There's some really weird looking stuff, like hammerhead grips (stubby pistol grip that does not 'protrude' below the stock), collapsible stocks that attach to the grip instead of the buffer tube..

And things like this bizarre creature, which is actually kind of cool looking... in an oddball sort of way.

 

[Boom Boom]

God, my eyes. Will this pain ever stop.

 

[Wojo]

That stock looks like it is ready to kick the mag! WEIRD

 

[Boom Boom]

The stock looks like a collapsible tow hitch.

 

[annihilation-time]

Now I've seen everything.

 

[Markp]

If you want a good laugh it came out this morning that as written the 7 round limit applies to on duty police and military in NY.

You know they won't leave it that way, but I wish they would.

 

[anil]

ok, so here is the shotgun provision....

(III) A SECOND HANDGRIP OR A PROTRUDING GRIP THAT CAN BE HELD BY THE

Now, I might be mistaken, but does the fore end grip of a shotgun count as a "second handgrip"? It doesn't say, "pistol grip."

DID NEW YORK JUST BAN SHOTGUNS?

Well, you can also look at is another way. If the 1st grip is the foregrip (and if the buttstock doesn't count as a grip), then this just bans pistol grips on shotguns (being a second grip) or things like bolt-on vertical or angle forgrips.

Does the mossberg chainsaw have a pistol grip? wonder if the overhand gripper on that is considered 'protruding'.

still very vague sounding.

 

[aray]

Here's the exact text of the new NY law:

http://open.nysenate.gov/legislation/bill/S2230-2013

And here's their new definition of assault weapon (and as noted you need only one feature to qualify):

S 37. Subdivision 22 of section 265.00 of the penal law, as added by
chapter 189 of the laws of 2000, is amended to read as follows:
22. "Assault weapon" means
(A) A SEMIAUTOMATIC RIFLE THAT HAS AN ABILITY TO ACCEPT A DETACHABLE
MAGAZINE AND HAS AT LEAST ONE OF THE FOLLOWING CHARACTERISTICS:
(I) A FOLDING OR TELESCOPING STOCK;
(II) A PISTOL GRIP THAT PROTRUDES CONSPICUOUSLY BENEATH THE ACTION OF
THE WEAPON;
(III) A THUMBHOLE STOCK;
(IV) A SECOND HANDGRIP OR A PROTRUDING GRIP THAT CAN BE HELD BY THE
NON-TRIGGER HAND;
(V) A BAYONET MOUNT;
(VI) A FLASH SUPPRESSOR, MUZZLE BREAK, MUZZLE COMPENSATOR, OR THREADED
BARREL DESIGNED TO ACCOMMODATE A FLASH SUPPRESSOR, MUZZLE BREAK, OR
MUZZLE COMPENSATOR;
(VII) A GRENADE LAUNCHER; OR
S. 2230 19 A. 2388
(B) A SEMIAUTOMATIC SHOTGUN THAT HAS AT LEAST ONE OF THE FOLLOWING
CHARACTERISTICS:
(I) A FOLDING OR TELESCOPING STOCK;
(II) A THUMBHOLE STOCK;
(III) A SECOND HANDGRIP OR A PROTRUDING GRIP THAT CAN BE HELD BY THE
NON-TRIGGER HAND;
(IV) A FIXED MAGAZINE CAPACITY IN EXCESS OF SEVEN ROUNDS;
(V) AN ABILITY TO ACCEPT A DETACHABLE MAGAZINE; OR
(C) A SEMIAUTOMATIC PISTOL THAT HAS AN ABILITY TO ACCEPT A DETACHABLE
MAGAZINE AND HAS AT LEAST ONE OF THE FOLLOWING CHARACTERISTICS:
(I) A FOLDING OR TELESCOPING STOCK;
(II) A THUMBHOLE STOCK;
(III) A SECOND HANDGRIP OR A PROTRUDING GRIP THAT CAN BE HELD BY THE
NON-TRIGGER HAND;
(IV) CAPACITY TO ACCEPT AN AMMUNITION MAGAZINE THAT ATTACHES TO THE
PISTOL OUTSIDE OF THE PISTOL GRIP;
(V) A THREADED BARREL CAPABLE OF ACCEPTING A BARREL EXTENDER, FLASH
SUPPRESSOR, FORWARD HANDGRIP, OR SILENCER;
(VI) A SHROUD THAT IS ATTACHED TO, OR PARTIALLY OR COMPLETELY ENCIR
CLES, THE BARREL AND THAT PERMITS THE SHOOTER TO HOLD THE FIREARM WITH
THE NON-TRIGGER HAND WITHOUT BEING BURNED;
(VII) A MANUFACTURED WEIGHT OF FIFTY OUNCES OR MORE WHEN THE PISTOL IS
UNLOADED; OR
(VIII) A SEMIAUTOMATIC VERSION OF AN AUTOMATIC RIFLE, SHOTGUN OR
FIREARM;
(D) A REVOLVING CYLINDER SHOTGUN;
(E) A SEMIAUTOMATIC RIFLE, A SEMIAUTOMATIC SHOTGUN OR A SEMIAUTOMATIC
PISTOL OR WEAPON DEFINED IN SUBPARAGRAPH (V) OF PARAGRAPH (E) OF SUBDI
VISION TWENTY-TWO OF SECTION 265.00 OF THIS CHAPTER AS ADDED BY CHAPTER
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTY-NINE OF THE LAWS OF TWO THOUSAND AND OTHERWISE
LAWFULLY POSSESSED PURSUANT TO SUCH CHAPTER OF THE LAWS OF TWO THOUSAND
PRIOR TO SEPTEMBER FOURTEENTH, NINETEEN HUNDRED NINETY-FOUR;
(F) A SEMIAUTOMATIC RIFLE, A SEMIAUTOMATIC SHOTGUN OR A SEMIAUTOMATIC
PISTOL OR WEAPON DEFINED IN PARAGRAPH (A), (B) OR (C) OF THIS SUBDIVI
SION, POSSESSED PRIOR TO THE DATE OF ENACTMENT OF THE CHAPTER OF THE
LAWS OF TWO THOUSAND THIRTEEN WHICH ADDED THIS PARAGRAPH;
(G) PROVIDED, HOWEVER, THAT SUCH TERM DOES NOT INCLUDE:
(I) ANY RIFLE, SHOTGUN OR PISTOL THAT (A) IS MANUALLY OPERATED BY
BOLT, PUMP, LEVER OR SLIDE ACTION; (B) HAS BEEN RENDERED PERMANENTLY
INOPERABLE; OR (C) IS AN ANTIQUE FIREARM AS DEFINED IN 18 U.S.C.
921(A)(16);
(II) A SEMIAUTOMATIC RIFLE THAT CANNOT ACCEPT A DETACHABLE MAGAZINE
THAT HOLDS MORE THAN FIVE ROUNDS OF AMMUNITION;
(III) A SEMIAUTOMATIC SHOTGUN THAT CANNOT HOLD MORE THAN FIVE ROUNDS
OF AMMUNITION IN A FIXED OR DETACHABLE MAGAZINE; OR
(IV) A RIFLE, SHOTGUN OR PISTOL, OR A REPLICA OR A DUPLICATE THEREOF,
SPECIFIED IN APPENDIX A TO 18 U.S.C. 922 AS SUCH WEAPON WAS MANUFACTURED
ON OCTOBER FIRST, NINETEEN HUNDRED NINETY-THREE. THE MERE FACT THAT A
WEAPON IS NOT LISTED IN APPENDIX A SHALL NOT BE CONSTRUED TO MEAN THAT
SUCH WEAPON IS AN ASSAULT WEAPON;
(V) ANY WEAPON VALIDLY REGISTERED PURSUANT TO SUBDIVISION SIXTEEN-A OF
SECTION 400.00 OF THIS CHAPTER. SUCH WEAPONS SHALL BE SUBJECT TO THE
PROVISIONS OF PARAGRAPH (H) OF THIS SUBDIVISION;
(VI) ANY FIREARM, RIFLE, OR SHOTGUN THAT WAS MANUFACTURED AT LEAST
FIFTY YEARS PRIOR TO THE CURRENT DATE, BUT NOT INCLUDING REPLICAS THERE
S. 2230 20 A. 2388
OF THAT IS VALIDLY REGISTERED PURSUANT TO SUBDIVISION SIXTEEN-A OF
SECTION 400.00 OF THIS CHAPTER;
(H) ANY WEAPON DEFINED IN PARAGRAPH (E) OR (F) OF THIS SUBDIVISION AND
ANY LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICE THAT WAS LEGALLY POSSESSED
BY AN INDIVIDUAL PRIOR TO THE ENACTMENT OF THE CHAPTER OF THE LAWS OF
TWO THOUSAND THIRTEEN WHICH ADDED THIS PARAGRAPH, MAY ONLY BE SOLD TO,
EXCHANGED WITH OR DISPOSED OF TO A PURCHASER AUTHORIZED TO POSSESS SUCH
WEAPONS OR TO AN INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY OUTSIDE OF THE STATE PROVIDED THAT
ANY SUCH TRANSFER TO AN INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY OUTSIDE OF THE STATE MUST
BE REPORTED TO THE ENTITY WHEREIN THE WEAPON IS REGISTERED WITHIN SEVEN
TY-TWO HOURS OF SUCH TRANSFER. AN INDIVIDUAL WHO TRANSFERS ANY SUCH
WEAPON OR LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION DEVICE TO AN INDIVIDUAL INSIDE NEW
YORK STATE OR WITHOUT COMPLYING WITH THE PROVISIONS OF THIS PARAGRAPH
SHALL BE GUILTY OF A CLASS A MISDEMEANOR UNLESS SUCH LARGE CAPACITY
AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICE, THE POSSESSION OF WHICH IS MADE ILLEGAL BY
THE CHAPTER OF THE LAWS OF TWO THOUSAND THIRTEEN WHICH ADDED THIS PARA
GRAPH, IS TRANSFERRED WITHIN ONE YEAR OF THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THE CHAP
TER OF THE LAWS OF TWO THOUSAND THIRTEEN WHICH ADDED THIS PARAGRAPH.

 

[Patrick]

Choke tubes are fine, for now.

Please understand the only reason they exempted the "sportsmen" is to split them from the herd and reduce opposition in 2013. Once they get through step 1, they move onto the next step next year. And then the opposition will be much, much smaller.

My brother tells me the sportsman crowd in upstate New York is royally pissed. They may be viewed as hillbilly rubes by the downstate folks, but they know what is coming. They don't support this BS. He was at a bowling tournament the night this stuff was announced. He said everything stopped and people watched TV like war had been declared. The current there was anger and disbelief. Problem is, they ignore all politics and figured it could never happen to them after 1994 came and went. They figured gun control could go no lower than what they had. Now they know better.

So do we. O'Malley has to go through a few more steps, but understand his goals are identical to all others. They want to skirt the Supreme Court by making nearly all functional firearms too expensive to own and register, and to make minor mistakes and violations of their new rules so extreme that no person would take the chance.

This is Gun Control 2.0: making it so hard on the person that they just give up.

FWIW, we need to stop dividing ourselves with the term "Fudd". Old Elmer wouldn't be happy with what happened in New York, either. So why blame him when we know who is really responsible?

 

[Zanderx]

Now I've seen everything.

 

[NakedSnowman]

I sent an email to my parents up there in NY to see how it happened and what i was told was one minute they were talking about it, next its law. Most pro gunners have left the state many moons ago and many more are leaving now. Wonder whats going to happen when they don't have enough people to tax.

The federal governmnet will tax the free and prosperous states and bail out the states with no money. You know, what they are doing RIGHT NOW.

Choke tubes are fine, for now.

Please understand the only reason they exempted the "sportsmen" is to split them from the herd and reduce opposition in 2013. Once they get through step 1, they move onto the next step next year. And then the opposition will be much, much smaller.

My brother tells me the sportsman crowd in upstate New York is royally pissed. They may be viewed as hillbilly rubes by the downstate folks, but they know what is coming. They don't support this BS. He was at a bowling tournament the night this stuff was announced. He said everything stopped and people watched TV like war had been declared. The current there was anger and disbelief. Problem is, they ignore all politics and figured it could never happen to them after 1994 came and went. They figured gun control could go no lower than what they had. Now they know better.

So do we. O'Malley has to go through a few more steps, but understand his goals are identical to all others. They want to skirt the Supreme Court by making nearly all functional firearms too expensive to own and register, and to make minor mistakes and violations of their new rules so extreme that no person would take the chance.

This is Gun Control 2.0: making it so hard on the person that they just give up.

FWIW, we need to stop dividing ourselves with the term "Fudd". Old Elmer wouldn't be happy with what happened in New York, either. So why blame him when we know who is really responsible?

This.